Re: Streets of Rage Remake v5.1 Discussion Thread

[celestinx]

Yeah you're really not getting it.
Give it a moment.
CPU file - no extension.

File.

It may also help to turn on 'always see file extensions' just in case you're making the next level of mistakes.



Feel free to kick yourself when you see it.

Got it! haha. My mistake was i was creating a folder called cpu it needs to be a file...

Just in case i am not the only one; anyone having issues, folder and file are not the same thing.
Do not right click create new folder, you should right click New > Text Document then rename the text doc to cpu (If you have not go 'always see file extensions' on it will become cpu.txt you will need to remove the .txt so that it is just cpu.

[KFCutman]

Abadede was buffed?
Yeesh, it's already bad that he holds the 2nd strongest attack in the damn game.

[Saven]

[Don Vecta]

Now this is pretty awesome. Hope mods can be supported as it is the backbone of SORR.

[Saven]

And now SORR has a new working home, on the Raspberry Pi.

[jpgilyard]

could someone post a link to a complete save? i for the life of me can't get AI editor working.

[bazzza]

could someone post a link to a complete save? i for the life of me can't get AI editor working.

A.I mode to get working you have to complete event mode all missions, then unlock I think pallet editor and enemy name editor. Then A.I editor should be in the editor option on the main menu.

[Kane]

Can someone make a Abadede palette with blonde hair? I want him to look like Ultimate Warrior.

[bareknuckleroo]

Roll is not 100% invincible now,This is boring。I doesn't like this，Because it is too difficult，Roll is very important，If this set roll，Roll will become not to be worth a hair。

I realize this is a gigantic bump to address a post from two years ago, but the responses I see only mention the change to invulnerability. In 5.1, rolling now has three options: BKIII distance rolling, SoR3 distance rolling, and Off (lol, no), and the difference between BKIII and SoR3 is pretty important.

First, rolling shouldn't be 100% invincible, as it was never designed that way. In the original games, both BKIII and SoR3, I've tested and I can't see any invulnerability when rolling. You can dodge certain high attacks, as your hitbox's height is lower during the roll, so you may avoid attacks that way, but your hitbox appears to be fully active during all of the roll's frames. It was introduced presumably to give you a quicker vertical movement option, not as a source of invulnerability frames. SoRR may have retained a few frames of invulnerability at the start of the roll in 5.1 to get enemies to react to it by moving away (the AI seems to try and move away if it senses you're invulnerable).

I'm curious to know what people think of the rolling distance choice now - do people prefer BKIII's shorter distance, or the longer distance of SoR3 rolling? I'm on the fence about this - BKIII makes rolling feel very difference between 'normal' rolling characters and characters who have a long jump (Mr. X, Shiva, Rudra, Ash). But SoR3 rolling does move you a fair distance more, and moves you more quickly, so it's a more effective dodge. You'll still have Mania enemies keep up with you if you try to roll away from them, but the increased movement speed means you have a slightly bigger window to safely dodge jumping attacks, etc. The longer rolling does move you a bit farther from the enemy, so you have to move more to get back into position for a counterattack when dodging, which in some cases is a downside to SoR3 distance.

I tested the difference between regular walking speeds vs rolling under both types by having two characters move up or down from the edge of the screen at the same time. Roll with one character as you walk with the other, letting go of walk when the rolling character stops moving. With BKIII rolling if you want to move vertically you move basically at the same speed and the same distance as a roll if you hold up or down for the same length of time. This means that rolling's only advantage in BKIII distance is the reduction of your hitbox size during the movement, which will help dodge some high attacks like jump kicks. SoR3 rolling moves you a slightly longer distance than if you held up or down for the same length of time, and moves you faster than regular walking speeds, so it feels a bit more meaningful as a movement option.

Now that I've messed around with it more and paid serious attention to it, I think SoR3 rolling distance I think was one of the few improvements it had over BKIII, if not the only improvement.

[Guest]

All I can say from experimentation and modification of character fpgs is that V5 does not implement hitboxes the way people would like. There is an element of 'hitpoint intersects with sprite' but often hits will still register above a sprite's bounds, and in what should be transparent space.

Rolling seems to very rarely go under attacks, if ever... can I remember a time where I've actually rolled under something? The start-invincibility also seems to have negligible effect, as it is so short that whatever attack was going through will typically still have a chance register, even at SoR3 rollspeed.

Because of the way hit detection works in V5, and V5's AI being so aggressive it can break itself, it's honestly a bad move leaving so little invincibility on dodge rolls.

Note: V5's AI does not back away from i-frames. That was patched out a long time ago to prevent vault cheese.

[bareknuckleroo]

That's interesting to know. If there's an issue with high attacks connecting with parts of the character that are transparent, then in that case it makes sense to give some degree of invulnerability to rolls. Currently I think there's what, 3 frames of invulnerability at the start? That's basically nothing.

I know I've tested on the original SoR3 and seen (by baiting them) Soozies miss their jump kick if you roll, and their feet travel over you as you're rolling (this is hard to time, you have to stand at the top of the screen and roll up, and be spaced correctly, so it's largely unreliable in practical terms).

I didn't know enemy AI had changed with respect to i-frames. I know I've seen them back away regularly from Defensive Specials as well as Adam's Blitz Special but maybe that's because they react specifically to the attack, and not the i-frames. If enemies can't be cheesed by infinitely rolling with a roll that has invulnerability, then perhaps it does make sense for it to be back in. SoRR is after all a different game from SoR, SoR2 or SoR3, and Mania enemies move crazy fast, so it's not like it'd be completely unreasonable to have an invulnerable roll. I am admittedly a huuuge fan of games with this kind of dodging that has i-frames (God Hand's backflip, Vanquish's rolling dodge, Bayonetta's dodge), and you can have a very difficult game even with an effective dodge available (maybe make it invulnerable from the start, and end invulnerability on the last few frames as you stand up from the roll?).

[Guest]

Pretty much a reverse of what we have now, like you said, would be ideal.
I-frames until the last few, so it can be used reactively to avoid incoming BS, but you're vulnerable again before recovering.
b

And yeah, enemies space themselves to avoid typical attack collision (I've tested with different backward ranges to find they seem to have a specific distance they wait behind you during i-frames, regardless of backward range of whatever you're doing), but don't care about i-frames anymore.

[bareknuckleroo]

Is there a wishlist thread for changes (on the off chance there's ever another version update)? I'd still like to see a 'Remake' Weapon Type that's basically SoR3 without the weapon health. Would being able to use weapons without breakage and grab enemies without dropping them be too powerful? You'd still lose them after being knocked down three times of course or throwing them away. This is what SoR1 weapon type does, but you can't throw weapons there, which I find way more helpful to be able to do than using back attacks while holding a weapon (unless there's a way to throw a weapon under SoR1 weapon type I'm not aware of...?).

It'd also be nice to have the 'B Button' Star Moves setting allow you to use the 0 Star special by using the X button (basically X button type, but your attack button defaults to the star value and the special combo button uses the 0 star version). There's a number of characters I'd like to have the attack button default to their highest level blitz, while still being able to occasionally use the 0 star. Like, every single Blaze (hishousouzan is awful), Zan, Roo, Skate, etc.

[Guest]

I'm not aware of a list anywhere. Just as long as he doesn't look at some guy saying 'Abadede too easy' and goes with that (Imma kill the guy who said that BTW /sarcasm ) we should get something even better than what we have.

^This is that weird moment when the realist looks like an optimist^

[bareknuckleroo]

I've been playing 5.1 basically all weekend, binging on Mania mode. There are definite moments where I'm wishing for a bit of invulnerability so I can at least attempt to evade. Mr. X is pretty effective in most situations, except against Jets where his air attacks with their awful hitboxes can't really touch them - he has to either try and punch them when they're low to the ground, or use the gun over and over, but his jumping evade has a few frames of initial delay, so much less safe than a roll. I'm struggling to dodge three Jets flying around on the elevator fight with him, even with trying to throw other mobs against them.

BKIII/SoR3 are noticeably slower/less crazy than SoRR gets on Mania, so I've never noticed as many issues with the rolling mechanic there. But now that I'm getting really back into SoRR I'm seeing why the lack of invulnerability gets to be an issue on higher difficulties, especially when you have a lot of very fast, projectile using enemies.

[bareknuckleroo]

So, after trying to evade Shiva with Mr. X as well as deal with the elevator fight which gets reeeally nasty on Mania... I'm playing it on the default lives setting of 3 and having trouble clearing it without continues. Shiva is a major blocking roadblock. Can't be baited into Final Crash, punishes almost everything immediately... nasty stuff.

The more I get back into it, the more I find myself trying to roll up or down and getting hit out of it repeatedly. I know it wasn't originally designed as invulnerable, but the sheer Mania speeds and ridiculousness of enemies on Mania means it really feels SoRR would be better with some more roll invulnerability. Even 100% invulnerable rolls weren't completely broken since there was a window between each one where you could get hit.

[Guest]

[insert "told ya so" here]

[bareknuckleroo]

I know, I know.

I'm usually a big purist in terms of retaining mechanics in updates... but SoRR feels very different from the other games in the series, especially on the higher difficulties. On Mania in particular, AI simply can't be exploited the way it could in the Genesis games, enemies that block behave extremely aggressively, enemies are often much more aggressive with grabs and anti-air punishes, and often bosses that had exploitable AI are no longer exploitable and must be played much more carefully (R.Bear, Shiva, Abadede, etc).

Even with its options for tweaking the game to feel like a certain game in the series, SoRR feels more like an SoR4 would, rather than an actual remake. As such I think it's fair to balance it around this, since it's really an entirely new game, rather than just a remake of one of the individual games. Sometimes I think SoRR actually is difficult to game balance simply because of the sheer quantity of options.

[Don Vecta]

SORR gameplay is definitely in another level. Not only the game feels more fast paced but mechanics, AI reaction, impacts, hitboxes and the overall feel is highly upgraded. Trying to play this game like if we play SOR1, 2 or 3 is impossible, the game's challenge demands a completely different approach and tweak with the AI in order to make it less tough.

The game needs some features removed from v5.0 back, like the invincibility frames on dodge, or the bikes hitboxes when knocked down (in the old games, bikes were lot easier to control, in SOR3, for example, was possible to hit more than once if you got a repeato motorcyclo, but in SORR you can hit only once AND if knocked down, you're being mowed. I mean, why only the characters get mowed and not the enemies, too?)

Regardless, it's not really a complaint, just that game's totally different from the official games. And I'm glad it is.

[WillyTheSquid]

Just reporting in that I got it compiled and running great under Manjaro Linux, Arch User Repo (AUR) has the 5.1 version for download and it's much better than running in WINE.

As with any Linux version of SoRR, you need to rename all files in all mods to use ONLY lowercase, same goes for folders. Spaces and dots are allowed, I just tested it. Apparently the game looks for lowercase filenames only on Linux.

Why is this important? Linux allows files with the same name to exist in a folder together if the capitalization is different, while in Windows they count as the same filename. So if your mod's folder is named "My Mod v0.1" it will not be found by the game, but "my mod v0.1" will work. Same goes for all the files in the mod's folders.

Mods go in /home/YOURUSERNAME/.sorr/mod/games folder.
Note that in Linux, files and folders starting with a dot (.) are by default hidden and you will need to enable "show hidden files" in your file manager to see the above folder.

Now I am running into a problem only with the damn palette folder. In the Arch Linux version of SoRR 5.1, but I think I have it figured out. Will report back.

*EDIT* Yup, couldn't put palettes in the palettes folder (/home/USERNAME/.sorr/palettes) because it's symlinked to the folder /opt/sorr/palettes/, which only the root user of the system normally has read/write access to.
I opened up the file manager (Thunar, in my case) as the root user and copied a pack of player character bonus palettes to /opt/sorr/palettes/. That used to work on Ubuntu in the pre-5.1 days, but no dice. Only when I bought the Palette editor in the shop did the extra palettes actually show up.
Thought that would be pretty handy to know!

[DarkzKnight]

Hey there, i know it's waaaaaay late for me to just discover this update for the game but i have some questions regarding the changelog. Here it is:

12. If you are banned from the store all the cheats are disabled.
How do you get banned?

46. Bug-fix : You can hit Vehelits before he is even displayed by using Super specials (Rudra, Elle, etc).
How do you do super specials?

123. Added new option (SOR3) on enable run & roll (BK3, SOR3*, NO).
What's the difference between these options?

This version removed the hq2x video options,
I think we have a strong enough pc to run this filter without fps drop
How can i get it back?

And lastly, the changelog mentioned about SOR3 and BK3 characters
What's the difference between them?

Thanks in advance!!!

[Mr.Din]

Hey there, i know it's waaaaaay late for me to just discover this update for the game but i have some questions regarding the changelog. Here it is:

12. If you are banned from the store all the cheats are disabled.
How do you get banned?

You get banned by stealing from the shop when Blaze is asleep, your clock has to be set between midnight and 6am iirc for this to occur.

46. Bug-fix : You can hit Vehelits before he is even displayed by using Super specials (Rudra, Elle, etc).
How do you do super specials?

it's the same as the cop call button

123. Added new option (SOR3) on enable run & roll (BK3, SOR3*, NO).
What's the difference between these options?

BK3 has a shorter roll distance than SoR3.

This version removed the hq2x video options,
I think we have a strong enough pc to run this filter without fps drop
How can i get it back?

given there isn't going to be another update I don't see this happening. iirc hq2x was causing either really bad slow down or crashes. can't remember which was the reason for the removal

And lastly, the changelog mentioned about SOR3 and BK3 characters
What's the difference between them?

as far as this game goes, the only differences here are the sounds and names as the characters are heavily based on their BK3 counterparts. there are differences in the original games though.

[DarkzKnight]

Okay, thanks man!!
Been playing this game like crazy since i discovered it yesterday

[WillyTheSquid]

BK3 has a shorter roll distance than SoR3.

Thanks for clarifying, I already forgot this after not playing for a year. ;D Does it influence invincibility frames as well?

I was also missing a filter, now I know why.

[DarkzKnight]

i don't think so, here's from the changelog

- Roll is not 100% invincible now, only 3 ticks at the beginning.

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