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SORmaker v5.3 wishlist - Things the mod developers we *ACTUALLY* need.

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Axle Stone 1991
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Post  weealls Mon May 16, 2022 3:18 am

bareknuckleroo wrote:Zan is actually quite effective in the Remake. His fighting style isn't meant to be high damage, but rather focused on extremely high priority/reach on attacks, and high speed on his pokes. His throws are quite decent for damage, and he's got among the best blitzes in the game with all four of his blitzes being useful (especially the 3 Star for beating out bosses with its ridiculous priority). His use of weapons is really good too.

In fairness, I will go back on this. I've played a little more of V5.2 now and Zan seems more balanced than before. I can work with this. Although, it does bother me that a man with a robotic structure can't lift the bigger enemies.

I can't remember why this was changed but I think it was because they found some unused graphics in SoR3 and decided to implement those. From a functional standpoint his flurry grab is the same as it was before and you should be using throws to finish your grab attacks anyways.

So if they found unused graphics of Mr. X doing the floss when he laughs, should this be implemented? It doesn't belong dude. The overhand slap looks awkward and there's probably a reason it wasn't implemented.
"I should be using throws anyway". What? Are you telling me how to play the game here? Wanna' know why I like finishing an enemy with a headbutt instead of a throw for the 11th time in a row? Because I suddenly may just feel the urge to lol. The game has a variation of attacks for a reason, man. To mix things up. To keep it interesting so that it doesn't look like every other button masher out there.

Other than literally being the worst blitzes in SoR3? Seriously, in SoR3 his double and triple dash force you to the bottom of the screen and have non-noteworthy damage. They're awful. SoRR gives him dashes you can control yourself to attack diagonally with much like SoR3 Skate's 2 and 3 star blitzes, and they're among the best blitzes in the entire game. His 3 star blitz in SoRR has ridiculous priority and the diagonal ability basically lets you mow down dangerous bosses as well as crowds of regular enemies.

So this is obviously something that comes down to preference here. I personally liked his original x2/x3 blitz because I knew when to use it. You could attack the top, the middle and bottom enemies of the screen when the opportunity presented itself. Again, useful for crowds. I can't seem to wrap my head around the new look. The x2 blitz is what actually bothers me. It looks like he's trying to grab someone's ass lol. His x3 blitz is really just his front special only with controllable movement. Whatever. An option to actually keep the original moves would be fair.


Last edited by weealls on Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  weealls Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:22 pm

E.Signal wrote:
1.) Get rid of the evasive enemy AI behavior or at least let me turn it off in the AI editor. It's been one of my biggest turn offs about Remake. The enemies are already buffed up in 5.2, so why continue making them evasive on top of this?

Couldn't agree more with this. The Remake by far has the worst AI. Every enemy character is like fighting Mayweather. They back off until you turn your back only to donkey punch you. They avoid grenades like the plague which renders them useless. They avoid thrown enemies which takes the fun out of throwing people. They avoid everything except fire... they love fire.
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Post  SORDave Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:31 am

Hopefully one day we get a v5.3

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Post  Iceferno Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:53 pm

Depends how many times people want to replay V5 from scratch. lol That's what really bothered me about 5.2. Yeah, it had updates, but not enough to justify starting over. If 5.3 can fix the problems 5.2 created, then fair enough, but I think I'm ready for a V6.

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Post  E253MechaShadow Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:25 pm

Aside from fixing the AI, here are a few things that'd be great to implement for SORMaker mods:

- Make ALL playable characters (or at least their most popular variants) into bosses with a moveset like Break's so they could use dual moves on their own.
- Return Super Shiva from V4 as a secret boss (perhaps for Mania) or at least a SORMaker-exclusive boss, give his sprites a slight touch-up. He'd make for a great final boss in many mods!
- Allow mod makers to choose specific death sounds for specific enemies (I don't mean to let them add more additional sounds, but choose from the ones that are already in the game or replaced)
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Post  RicardoXI Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:35 am

Need a dlc (or other name) box in character selection for put the chars (like Abadade, Maz and other ones) without change the originals

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Post  Iceferno Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:40 am

RicardoXI wrote:Need a dlc (or other name) box in character selection for put the chars (like Abadade, Maz and other ones) without change the originals
This would actually be good for a custom character space. Instead of modding over an existing character, you could load whatever you wanted into its own slot.

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Post  MentzWolf Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:35 am

Wait guys, aren't we missing something??

Wasn't v5.2 made my someone not at all related to the original developer?? How can we expect another update when the original dev has been MIA for a pretty long time??
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Post  Mr.Chewy-McFluffster2010 Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:27 pm

I liked the other ideas you have put in for a future update.

Remember what I said about allowing mods to use their own sound and graphic sets without the unnecessary requirement for moving the contents to the main game's data folder?  I may have already discussed about that in another topic.

That was originally a concept for v6, but this could be moved forward to v5.3, so that players are not required to copy over the data folder's contents of those mods, leaving the original set untouched for the main game.  This could make it easier for the program to detect the presence of the DATA folder when playing a mod, causing certain audio and visual changes to take place and reverting to the original appearance when leaving the SoRMaker mode.

If you would like that to happen, perhaps I could get a mention on the next update, and (if possible), have my pseudonym added to the v5.3 (or v6) credits in the 'Special Thanks' section when they complete the primary portion of the game.
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Post  ricmagus Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:41 pm

my only desire for a future update is to get beck the original difficult from 5.1. i mean, that is in fact one of the reasons im still plaiyng 5.1. at least, give the option to change to "original" difficulty somehow, to people who prefers the 5.1 difficulty style. then whe can get the "best of both worlds" (yes, best is subjective, i know. some people prefer the new difficult and i respect that XD, but i don't like)

that said, thanks for all people evolved in the later updates (and any future ones too)!

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Post  Final Crash Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:47 pm

I have ideas for interactive moments of the remake - add at least with the same Donovan. For example, that the barrels are not dropped by the wind, but they are kicked by Donovan or the Trucker or to use, for example, more moments with snipers, yes, at the same factory or in the jungle from SOR3, or for example, when bikers or other enemies who know how to use grenades quickly ran up and threw grenades and then ran away again, as in Prisoner of War or to melt chains on which are hanging boxes or a fight with a bulldozer in which the same loader is sitting. Throw grenades at him, for example, and have time to dodge. Hmmmmm. But the moment with the trolley could also be made adrenaline-fueled. Where Donovan is trying to kill the player and where it is necessary to kill him by blowing up the trolley. Oh, yeah. In a factory with robots, there could be lasers, for example, or a beam that raises an alarm if a player is noticed. I remember that there were also Donovans and Garcias in cyber suits (They could use a grenade launcher, a flamethrower, use a blaster or fly a jetpack trying to throw explosives at the player or, for example, be snipers at a robot factory using a laser, for example. But they remained a background. Or in levels on a bike - bikers could throw grenades and not just a Jet.But such interactive moments could be added for the jungle in a remake where robots burn the forest - and in an alternative route - Donovans and Garcias on a jetpack - blow up or set fire to the bridge Smile
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Post  Final Crash Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:41 am

To be honest, the snow level that was in SORR4, Rudra Story and  survival mode - could be used in a battle at a ski resort where there would be a fight on snowboards or a scooter + as an interactive battle on a snowmobile (mini boss).Ideas for bosses - throw grenades / dynamite to smoke out enemies who are sitting in hiding and throw grenades or dynamites at the player (as in Battletoads) , road battles - bikers can throw grenades, but the player can grab grenades and throw them back at the enemy or jet or enemies on the jetpack. As well as a battle with a helicopter - throwing it with grenades (if the character uses a bike), as well as a helicopter in the jungle with the landing of enemies as in Contra and the player must use a grenade launcher. Smile
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Post  Puzirkov Tue Feb 21, 2023 9:39 am

Final Crash wrote:To be honest, the snow level that was in SORR4, Rudra Story and  survival mode - could be used in a battle at a ski resort where there would be a fight on snowboards or a scooter + as an interactive battle on a snowmobile (mini boss).Ideas for bosses - throw grenades / dynamite to smoke out enemies who are sitting in hiding and throw grenades or dynamites at the player (as in Battletoads) , road battles - bikers can throw grenades, but the player can grab grenades and throw them back at the enemy or jet or enemies on the jetpack. As well as a battle with a helicopter - throwing it with grenades (if the character uses a bike), as well as a helicopter in the jungle with the landing of enemies as in Contra and the player must use a grenade launcher. Smile
Very cool idea and I think that it is necessary to add the number of layers.

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Post  Final Crash Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:10 am

Hmmmmm. But it would be possible to make new enemies - former military men who defected to the side of Mr. X. There are sergeants in SOR2. But in fact it is a reskin of Galsia and Donovan, but nothing more Very Happy
Or in a helicopter battle, add only the military. This would be more in keeping with the atmosphere of Prisoner of War, and grenades are thrown into the helicopter not by a Jet, but by a military man on a jetpack or from a helicopter. In the jungle there is a military base of the former military and where the colonel will be, and then a secret entrance to the factory and laboratory with robots. The atmosphere of Contra / Prisoner of War
As well as former police officers and officers instead of Galvice. In parks, in the city,estate grounds, in the port.
About AI - the speed of enemies automatically adjusts to the characteristics of the character for more balance. Although, if desired, you can set the speed and damage manually. I remember that in v5.2 enemies walked like in SOR1
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Post  DarkThief Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:07 pm

Looks like the debate rages on, even after all of this time...after reading all the modding woes it's a good thing I decided to stick with 5.1, as I only play mods nowadays. I know I whined about the buffed 5.1 Shiva/Rudra when that first came out, but those are endgame bosses that were too weak in 5.0a...5.2 nerfing Elle to the ground and buffing every single mob to be annoying as hell? Never tried it, never will.

E.Signal wrote:Route 3 could've been a full fledged SOR3 route instead of just a few stages from that game while Route 4 could've been it's own thing and had brand new original stages, but instead it's just a repeat of Route 3. What a waste of an opportunity.

The closest thing to a "Route 4" is taking the SoR3 warehouse -> jetskis and eventually the secret jungle path (leading to the waterfall and Dr. Dahm)...shame it still involves doing SoR2+3 bits as well. (and ends on SoR2 instead of having it's own ending, see below)

Mr.Din wrote:The issue with an SoR3 route though is that the story tied to it "doesn't exist" here. Though with the story being the search for Mr.Xit could work if the existing paths changed a bit. For starters instead of choosing between the warehouse and construction site we could use the SoR2 GG/SMS stages which is literally a night version of the warehouse and an underground train. If each path really needs to start on the streets then have an opening stage be the sor3 warehouse that leads to the path select. Would be a true rewrite of 3's story.

I don't see such a big structural change happening but it's fun to fantasize. Lol

The big thing that peeved me off about the whole thing was the huge bias towards SoR2 and against SoR3...which led to nearly every route dipping in and out of SoR2 and ofc having a total of 4 routes that became just 3 routes by the end (2 good + 1 bad, which is awful design).

The "Route 4" path mentioned above should've ended in Robot Y's lab with the 3 min timer and bombs planted in the city, just as in SoR3 but not quite as stringent (ie. a x5 Robot Y instead of x7), with ending 5 if you fail and 6 if you win. (another way to get "Mr. X is still alive, try another route" which makes no sense currently)

BlueFireZ88 wrote:I'm also a part of the classic DOOM modding community, and every major source port goes out of their way to make sure mods work properly with the most recent versions and that older mods have coded parameters to allow them to work within them in case there is a problem.

Same here, though I retired from mapping years ago. The number of times that ZDoom-based ports have fixed issues when a specific mod breaks in a newer version is easy to lose count of (though I don't update mine anymore due to another issue). But imagine if that happened here...sounds like just a single update would solve it all.
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Post  fuggles2k Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:59 pm

Just make it easier again, 5.2 is markedly less fun than 5.1 to the extent I'm going back to it. The two women on the boat take blaze down in 3 hits, almost 2 and I've found no effective way of fighting frederick or shiva who just block or hit through you. Nearly all enemies out range you and have AA, or have some weird acceleration where they zoom around you and jab you. Forward+special also is ignored a lot of the time and cancelled out of by enemies grabbing you.

There seem to be a lot more enemies which is fine, but this is the first time I've not made it to Mr X on normal and it was just a battle, the AI companion has no chance! I get to a boss and just bleed lives. I don't think I'm terrible at SoR, certainly not great but this is just beyond fun and into a bit of a slog.

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Post  Bridget GX Sun May 21, 2023 9:17 pm

If we were to ever see a new version of Remake, this is what I feel would make it the most fun.

1. UNLOCKABLE ENEMIES, AND I MEAN ALL OF THEM
Mr. X, Shiva, Roo, Ash and Rudra are a good start, but there should also be a slot on the character select that brings up a list of unlocked enemies, where each one would be unlocked simply by beating them for the first time. You could have that slot in the shop for 99,999 coins. In other words, it would be something like a better Syndicate Wars. They can have some limitations (no police, no star enhancements), but should each have a full move set. Combos, throws, jump moves and specials. Then, maybe have an option for the AI to use whatever new attacks are added to accommodate this.

The reason I don't like Syndicate Wars much is because of how limited enemy move sets are, where many lack basic attacks and movements, so they don't play as fluidly as a hero character. The whole point is to play as the enemy, it should be exciting. Also, Syndicate Wars only goes as far as SOR2. There are so many cool enemies throughout the entire trilogy that would be fun to play.  SOR Remake is FAR more fluid than SOR2, because of universal running and rolling. It's much faster. So to play the Battle Mode with that much more of a roster would be great, and I'll get more into that later.

I'll only make one exception to unlockable enemies, and that's the jetpack bosses. They're so annoying that it wouldn't even be enjoyable to play as them.

Enemies that can block (like Slum or the Muay Thai dudes from SOR2) would have their special meter (the five blocks and "OK!") replaced by block meter. They could block up to five attacks by holding Special before their guard breaks. Depleted Block meter would recover one per second.

Enemies that produce weapons have no special meter, they just press Special and draw the weapon. Pressing forward+Special or doing a jump Special causes the character to attack while drawing the weapon and can be done with the weapon in hand. For example, Galsia's f+S would be swinging the knife around as he dashes forward for a couple hits, his jS would be throwing a knife 45 degrees downward while in the air. Just pressing Special by itself while a weapon is drawn will make your character put it away.

2: BATTLE MODE vs. CPU, HEROES AS ENEMIES and AI EDITOR ADJUSTMENTS
The most unfortunate limitation of SORR is that Battle mode can only be played against another human player over couch co-op. Playing against AI should be a possibility. AI controlled characters can assist you in a run of the base game, but you can't fight them in good old-fashioned versus? What's up with that?

The AI editor should have two main settings per character. Enemy AI, where you encounter them as an enemy in the main game, and Player AI, where you fight them in Battle Mode or alongside them in the main game as a partner.

- Enemy AI, by default, is geared toward sticking to patterns, rather than utilizing the full move set accessible to the player. This can be modified as you wish. This could even include some Enemy-only moves and the ability to summon henchmen.

- Player AI is what already exists for CPU partners. So where a Galsia in the main game won't run at you without a knife and sticks to very simple patterns, Galsia in Battle Mode will run up to you and either jab combo, jump kick, even throw you.

3: ARCADE MODE
Because my idea has such a heavy emphasis on adding more playable characters and more accessibility to the fighting game element, the best way to drive this home would be including an unlockable Arcade Mode that allows you to experience Streets of Rage as a 1-on-1, versus-style fighting game, and use that as a way to get a little more cash and more enemies for the Enemy Slot.

The first few fights would be low and mid-level enemies, then a rotation of heroes, mid-bosses and bosses until stage 7, where you fight either Rudra, Shiva, Neo X or Robot X, and then stage 8, where you fight Mr. X.

4: RANDOM FIGHT MODE
Just click a button and play as a random character, against a random character, in a random stage, no items. This chooses from any character and stage you have unlocked. Can be done against CPU or another player.

5: CUSTOM CHARACTER SELECT SCREENS IN SORMAKER
Ideally, one that can assign a value of any character in the game to a slot. So, if you want the only playable characters of a campaign to be Galsia, Donovan and Signal, you could do that, and have the hero characters as bosses, for example.

6: COMBO SYSTEM and AIR SPECIALS
The cool parts of SOR4 would make this game even better.

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Post  Iceferno Sat May 27, 2023 1:29 pm

I think you're putting too much emphasis on the versus/fighting aspects for what is known as a beat em up.
At that point, you may as well make a fighting game spinoff of Remake. The Survival mode works best for what the game is imo.
I don't know if a V6 would add perk pickups like Mr X Nightmare has, but even just progressing through random arenas instead of choosing one would be an improvement.

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Post  Final Crash Tue May 30, 2023 7:39 am

For example, remember Hydra - Level 6 - where there was a teleportation effect of TMNT Turtles in Time - this would be a good mature survival mode. Fighting in one arena is boring and not all of them are well thought out. The arena from SOR 3 is boring. And the arena from SOR1 could give the jugglers the opportunity to have a drop of food after death.
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Post  SORDave Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:07 pm

All of this sounds very cool but again,we won't see a v5.3 anytime soon.

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Post  Don Vecta Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:31 am

In a realistic way, I don't think playable enemies with a full moveset would ever be done. Besides the huge work in making A LOT of sprite animations for simple enemies (like a Galsia-2 for example) which is practically making a whole new character, you still HAVE to program them to add them in-game. Nobody has the time and energy to get into it (if we, the fan proyects, get burned out and tired with out own shit.... imagine going with the whole roster of enemies into fully playable characters with a whole moveset, not to mention the programming to them all). Nah, kid, wake up, this ain't going to happen (of course, you're free to do it yourself but I bet you wouldn't even finish a Galsia completely). There's not enough motivation (monetary or otherwise) to do so.

And yeah, you're asking for a fighting game. Better go and mount SOR characters in MUGEN, that would be more feasible.

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Post  SORDave Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:47 am

Guess SORR is pretty much dead now lol

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Post  Final Crash Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:58 am

I think that at the moment there is nothing better than SORR v5.1. And I think it would be nice to have ports for different systems and devices. SORR v5.1 is almost perfect except for Axel BK3 and Ash. Otherwise, everything is very balanced, especially if you play around with the AI editor of enemies Smile
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Post  Mr.Chewy-McFluffster2010 Sun Jun 11, 2023 2:11 pm

SORDave wrote:All of this sounds very cool but again,we won't see a v5.3 anytime soon.
You were right, SORDave.

Presently, there are no plans to release v5.3, but despite the features we could all look forward to in the future, you would be best playing v5.1 or v5.2 depending on your personal preference until further notice.

My idea of data folder integration for SoRMaker could be introduced in v5.3 if the project resumes.  Focusing on SoRMaker, there should be a custom event trigger, which could be added to the SoRMaker window in a future release.  A new feature like that could be used for playing any sound effect such as a voice instruction whenever the player reaches a certain part of the stage as only a maximum of 10 in-stage dialogs are allowed per scene.  Some obscure consoles such as the V.Smile used it for educational video games to give hints or advice.

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Post  Axle Stone 1991 Sun Jun 11, 2023 8:34 pm

Bridget GX wrote:If we were to ever see a new version of Remake, this is what I feel would make it the most fun.

1. UNLOCKABLE ENEMIES, AND I MEAN ALL OF THEM
Mr. X, Shiva, Roo, Ash and Rudra are a good start, but there should also be a slot on the character select that brings up a list of unlocked enemies, where each one would be unlocked simply by beating them for the first time. You could have that slot in the shop for 99,999 coins. In other words, it would be something like a better Syndicate Wars. They can have some limitations (no police, no star enhancements), but should each have a full move set. Combos, throws, jump moves and specials. Then, maybe have an option for the AI to use whatever new attacks are added to accommodate this.

The reason I don't like Syndicate Wars much is because of how limited enemy move sets are, where many lack basic attacks and movements, so they don't play as fluidly as a hero character. The whole point is to play as the enemy, it should be exciting. Also, Syndicate Wars only goes as far as SOR2. There are so many cool enemies throughout the entire trilogy that would be fun to play.  SOR Remake is FAR more fluid than SOR2, because of universal running and rolling. It's much faster. So to play the Battle Mode with that much more of a roster would be great, and I'll get more into that later.

I'll only make one exception to unlockable enemies, and that's the jetpack bosses. They're so annoying that it wouldn't even be enjoyable to play as them.

Enemies that can block (like Slum or the Muay Thai dudes from SOR2) would have their special meter (the five blocks and "OK!") replaced by block meter. They could block up to five attacks by holding Special before their guard breaks. Depleted Block meter would recover one per second.

Enemies that produce weapons have no special meter, they just press Special and draw the weapon. Pressing forward+Special or doing a jump Special causes the character to attack while drawing the weapon and can be done with the weapon in hand. For example, Galsia's f+S would be swinging the knife around as he dashes forward for a couple hits, his jS would be throwing a knife 45 degrees downward while in the air. Just pressing Special by itself while a weapon is drawn will make your character put it away.

2: BATTLE MODE vs. CPU, HEROES AS ENEMIES and AI EDITOR ADJUSTMENTS
The most unfortunate limitation of SORR is that Battle mode can only be played against another human player over couch co-op. Playing against AI should be a possibility. AI controlled characters can assist you in a run of the base game, but you can't fight them in good old-fashioned versus? What's up with that?

The AI editor should have two main settings per character. Enemy AI, where you encounter them as an enemy in the main game, and Player AI, where you fight them in Battle Mode or alongside them in the main game as a partner.

- Enemy AI, by default, is geared toward sticking to patterns, rather than utilizing the full move set accessible to the player. This can be modified as you wish. This could even include some Enemy-only moves and the ability to summon henchmen.

- Player AI is what already exists for CPU partners. So where a Galsia in the main game won't run at you without a knife and sticks to very simple patterns, Galsia in Battle Mode will run up to you and either jab combo, jump kick, even throw you.

3: ARCADE MODE
Because my idea has such a heavy emphasis on adding more playable characters and more accessibility to the fighting game element, the best way to drive this home would be including an unlockable Arcade Mode that allows you to experience Streets of Rage as a 1-on-1, versus-style fighting game, and use that as a way to get a little more cash and more enemies for the Enemy Slot.

The first few fights would be low and mid-level enemies, then a rotation of heroes, mid-bosses and bosses until stage 7, where you fight either Rudra, Shiva, Neo X or Robot X, and then stage 8, where you fight Mr. X.

4: RANDOM FIGHT MODE
Just click a button and play as a random character, against a random character, in a random stage, no items. This chooses from any character and stage you have unlocked. Can be done against CPU or another player.

5: CUSTOM CHARACTER SELECT SCREENS IN SORMAKER
Ideally, one that can assign a value of any character in the game to a slot. So, if you want the only playable characters of a campaign to be Galsia, Donovan and Signal, you could do that, and have the hero characters as bosses, for example.

6: COMBO SYSTEM and AIR SPECIALS
The cool parts of SOR4 would make this game even better.

Like me and Meany others on this forum are saying, we are probably not going to see a SORR 5.3 anytime soon, the dev`s might as well make an entirely new game based on the new concepts you have displayed, and that would be time consuming, and I don't think their is enough people that would be willing to step forward into the light to take this on, if so, I will kindly take back my words respectfully. But these ideas sound like a great audition to a v5.3, again, this is likely not going to happen. I hope this info was helpful to you and others.

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