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SORmaker v5.3 wishlist - Things the mod developers we *ACTUALLY* need.

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Final Crash
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Post  SORDave Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:35 pm

Zhinkairi wrote:
SORDave wrote:Mr.Din was just joking XD
Makes sense. We're currently on standstill on updating for the greater goods. Plus, It's been a decade of this game. We have to keep supporting. We need wall jumps, juggle for combos, and new moves for each and everyone of the characters. With all due respect, and just like everyone else, I grew up loving the series. Is there any ways to tribute the 4th installment for remake or something?

I agree,there's so much stuff we can do for SORR in general,heck we could an original route,add stuff for SOR Maker etc.

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Post  Iceferno Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:33 pm

Wallbounce and combos could be a good idea. But I just know if combos get added, they'll add the annoying "Break!" feature too. Neutral lol
I personally would prefer it if you could just claim the combo when you get hit, so it wouldn't be so punishing.

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Post  Don Vecta Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:49 pm

Those might be some serious engine changes, not sure if B would be willing to go those lengths, to be honest.

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Post  SORDave Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:50 pm

Lol maybe.

That could be a good idea. Smile

Anyways,I hope you do an awesome job with those remixes,Iceferno Smile

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Post  E.Signal Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:11 pm

Route 3 could've been a full fledged SOR3 route instead of just a few stages from that game while Route 4 could've been it's own thing and had brand new original stages, but instead it's just a repeat of Route 3. What a waste of an opportunity.
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Post  Iceferno Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:18 pm

E.Signal wrote:Route 3 could've been a full fledged SOR3 route instead of just a few stages from that game while Route 4 could've been it's own thing and had brand new original stages, but instead it's just a repeat of Route 3. What a waste of an opportunity.
Agreed. I think even 5.2 could have rectified that with its extra stages. Entertainment Street and Waterfront could have been on the same route.

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Post  Mr.Din Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:21 pm

The issue with an SoR3 route though is that the story tied to it "doesn't exist" here. Though with the story being the search for Mr.Xit could work if the existing paths changed a bit. For starters instead of choosing between the warehouse and construction site we could use the SoR2 GG/SMS stages which is literally a night version of the warehouse and an underground train. If each path really needs to start on the streets then have an opening stage be the sor3 warehouse that leads to the path select. Would be a true rewrite of 3's story.

I don't see such a big structural change happening but it's fun to fantasize. Lol

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Post  SORDave Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:47 pm

I think they should add a Motor Bike feature in the SOR Maker,heck they could add those bosses like the Hockey Mask guy wearing the boxing gloves,the Ringmaster & that Predator wannabe that only appeared in the GG version.

Plus unused beta stuff from the genesis trilogy,etc.

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Post  Don Vecta Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:19 am

Mr.Din wrote:The issue with an SoR3 route though is that the story tied to it "doesn't exist" here. Though with the story being the search for Mr.Xit could work if the existing paths changed a bit. For starters instead of choosing between the warehouse and construction site we could use the SoR2 GG/SMS stages which is literally a night version of the warehouse and an underground train. If each path really needs to start on the streets then have an opening stage be the sor3 warehouse that leads to the path select. Would be a true rewrite of 3's story.

I don't see such a big structural change happening but it's fun to fantasize. Lol

Regardless, we already recreated those stages in SOR3U and they look fine there. Very Happy

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Post  SORDave Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:27 am

That's true lol,anyways I'll continue waiting for mods for months lol.

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Post  Gaz9000 Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:06 pm

I think above all else they need to fix the horrendous frame pacing issue the game has, none of the suggested solutions work, it’s a jittery mess that has 100% stopped me playing it.

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Post  bareknuckleroo Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:16 pm

We've been getting a lot of these posts since Win10 came out. The attitude reads exactly like the kind of post I'd expect from someone who hasn't actually tried to troubleshoot, turn off Vsync, use compatibility mode, etc. You can't be bothered to list what operating system you use which is the sort of thing that makes it nearly guaranteed it's Windows 10. Just because an older game doesn't run flawlessly on that shitty OS doesn't mean it's the fault of the game, lol. I've heard people who use Windows 10 are able to get the game working fine so I'm sure with the appropriate settings there's a way.

It would be nice if it improved compatibility, since it's the OS everyone's developing for now, but Windows 10 currently has incredibly hit-or-miss compatibility with older games, and you're basically asking for a game made before Win10 existed to be overhauled (which may require serious work to do so). Frankly if you want to run anything from the WinXP-Win7 era properly, Windows 7 is almost a necessity.

tl;dr win10 is kinda trash for older pc gaming

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Post  Iceferno Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:41 pm

Win 10 is kinda trash for a lot of things. lol I'd love to go back to 7. Seemed the best OS, at least in my experience.

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Post  SteveSOR Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:42 pm

I'd like to have the possibility to play with all characters together: player + the partners CPU.

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Post  SORDave Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:54 pm

Hmmm.

Say Iceferno,how goes the music making?

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Post  Glisp Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:38 pm

Charco wrote:I find the sense of entitlement amusing. People demanding the source code and bitching non-stop about a fangame update that nobody ever asked for. It is quite funny.

I find the sense of entitlement in your post disgusting. btw 5 down votes now as of the time of typing. Clearly nobody likes your take. You're alone Charco. There's no sense in protecting the game anymore. Anybody that actually cared about their stuff getting used has changed their mind as long as credit/permissions (in some cases) is given. All that's left is the SORR source code.

Stop being a stubborn old fart Charco.

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Post  Final Crash Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:44 pm

Charco wrote:I find the sense of entitlement amusing. People demanding the source code and bitching non-stop about a fangame update that nobody ever asked for. It is quite funny.

If you don’t want to improve the project, it doesn’t mean that others don’t want to. Version 5.2 has raised serious doubts. All in all, this was a deterioration. The author could contact the community and everyone in that community tested the game, that would be a more mature approach. But he didn't. Of course, you can only use 5.1 and not think about new versions. But the project does not deserve stagnation and has great potential. This can be seen in mods from Don Vecta and other talented people. I am in favor of improving this wonderful game Smile
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Post  SORDave Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:33 pm

I agree with Final Crash!

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Post  Gaz9000 Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:58 am

bareknuckleroo wrote:We've been getting a lot of these posts since Win10 came out. The attitude reads exactly like the kind of post I'd expect from someone who hasn't actually tried to troubleshoot, turn off Vsync, use compatibility mode, etc. You can't be bothered to list what operating system you use which is the sort of thing that makes it nearly guaranteed it's Windows 10. Just because an older game doesn't run flawlessly on that shitty OS doesn't mean it's the fault of the game, lol. I've heard people who use Windows 10 are able to get the game working fine so I'm sure with the appropriate settings there's a way.

It would be nice if it improved compatibility, since it's the OS everyone's developing for now, but Windows 10 currently has incredibly hit-or-miss compatibility with older games, and you're basically asking for a game made before Win10 existed to be overhauled (which may require serious work to do so). Frankly if you want to run anything from the WinXP-Win7 era properly, Windows 7 is almost a necessity.

tl;dr win10 is kinda trash for older pc gaming

bareknuckleroo wrote:We've been getting a lot of these posts since Win10 came out. The attitude reads exactly like the kind of post I'd expect from someone who hasn't actually tried to troubleshoot, turn off Vsync, use compatibility mode, etc. You can't be bothered to list what operating system you use which is the sort of thing that makes it nearly guaranteed it's Windows 10. Just because an older game doesn't run flawlessly on that shitty OS doesn't mean it's the fault of the game, lol. I've heard people who use Windows 10 are able to get the game working fine so I'm sure with the appropriate settings there's a way.

It would be nice if it improved compatibility, since it's the OS everyone's developing for now, but Windows 10 currently has incredibly hit-or-miss compatibility with older games, and you're basically asking for a game made before Win10 existed to be overhauled (which may require serious work to do so). Frankly if you want to run anything from the WinXP-Win7 era properly, Windows 7 is almost a necessity.

tl;dr win10 is kinda trash for older pc gaming

I have tried all solutions I can think of and suggested ones , “turning off vsync” & “run in compatibility mode” doesn’t work. Switching to BORDERLESS_SYNC and disabling Windows composition/effects didn’t work. Messed around with every logical thing in global settings that could potentially cause the issue, still no luck.

This game had the same frame pacing issues with later updates of windows 7 also and ever since then I’ve been trying to troubleshoot this issue for about a year and a half and eventually gave up, so no, you are wrong about not trying to troubleshoot the problem, I made a post in here asking if anyone had suggestions months ago and none of them worked, but hell if you are saying people with windows 10 have it working flawlessly and they’re reading this and found a fix or work around then i am all open for suggestions. Otherwise I’ll probably just stick to playing 5.1 on the original Xbox as at least that runs properly.

Also yes, windows 10, I thought it was already commonly known problem on that os so didn’t see the need to state the obvious. I have no idea if it’s major work or not to get running smoothly on win10.

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Post  Final Crash Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:36 pm

Gaz9000 wrote:
bareknuckleroo wrote:We've been getting a lot of these posts since Win10 came out. The attitude reads exactly like the kind of post I'd expect from someone who hasn't actually tried to troubleshoot, turn off Vsync, use compatibility mode, etc. You can't be bothered to list what operating system you use which is the sort of thing that makes it nearly guaranteed it's Windows 10. Just because an older game doesn't run flawlessly on that shitty OS doesn't mean it's the fault of the game, lol. I've heard people who use Windows 10 are able to get the game working fine so I'm sure with the appropriate settings there's a way.

It would be nice if it improved compatibility, since it's the OS everyone's developing for now, but Windows 10 currently has incredibly hit-or-miss compatibility with older games, and you're basically asking for a game made before Win10 existed to be overhauled (which may require serious work to do so). Frankly if you want to run anything from the WinXP-Win7 era properly, Windows 7 is almost a necessity.

tl;dr win10 is kinda trash for older pc gaming

bareknuckleroo wrote:We've been getting a lot of these posts since Win10 came out. The attitude reads exactly like the kind of post I'd expect from someone who hasn't actually tried to troubleshoot, turn off Vsync, use compatibility mode, etc. You can't be bothered to list what operating system you use which is the sort of thing that makes it nearly guaranteed it's Windows 10. Just because an older game doesn't run flawlessly on that shitty OS doesn't mean it's the fault of the game, lol. I've heard people who use Windows 10 are able to get the game working fine so I'm sure with the appropriate settings there's a way.

It would be nice if it improved compatibility, since it's the OS everyone's developing for now, but Windows 10 currently has incredibly hit-or-miss compatibility with older games, and you're basically asking for a game made before Win10 existed to be overhauled (which may require serious work to do so). Frankly if you want to run anything from the WinXP-Win7 era properly, Windows 7 is almost a necessity.

tl;dr win10 is kinda trash for older pc gaming

I have tried all solutions I can think of and suggested ones , “turning off vsync” & “run in compatibility mode”  doesn’t work.  Switching to BORDERLESS_SYNC and disabling Windows composition/effects didn’t work. Messed around with every logical thing in global settings that could potentially cause the issue, still no luck.  

This game had the same frame pacing issues with later updates of windows 7 also and ever since then I’ve been trying to troubleshoot this issue for about a year and a half and eventually gave up, so no, you are wrong about not trying to troubleshoot the problem, I made a post in here asking if anyone had suggestions months ago and none of them worked, but hell if you are saying people with windows 10 have it working flawlessly and they’re reading this and found a fix or work around then i am all open for suggestions. Otherwise I’ll probably just stick to playing 5.1 on the original Xbox as at least that runs properly.

Also yes, windows 10, I thought it was already commonly known problem on that os  so didn’t see the need to state the obvious. I have no idea if it’s major work or not to get running smoothly on win10.

Are these problems with 5.2 or 5.1? Version 5.1 works perfectly Smile
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Post  BlueFireZ88 Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:25 am

BlueFireZ88 wrote:Save States can be triggered anytime during gameplay by pressing F12.  This shuts down the game and remembers your progress, score, and the last scene you were at.

Don't quit to the menu via pause or you'll lose all your progress.  Why the team didn't include a "Save & Quit" option is beyond me.  Nor why they didn't specify F12 being that option either (No stated in the 5.0 manual, and 5.2 doesn't even have a manual).

From another thread about save states, but again, I'm surprised this issue hasn't been addressed as it's confusing unless you know about it.
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Post  Maria Lourenço Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:38 am

Herb1e wrote:Yes, I completely agree with this. Streets of Rage Remake is a game made BY the fans FOR the fans. There is definitely going to be a problem when they completely ignore the thing that is keeping the community alive. (SORMaker)

They really needed to consult with the community before 5.2 was made. Now, instead of a proper update with new SORMaker features, we got a bunch of things that nobody asked for. I mean who asked for balanced damage or achievements?

And the fact that old mods with data folders are now incompatible is the worst issue in my eyes. Why couldn't they make it so noised fpgs still work with SORR? Anyways, I think that it says something that so many people in the community (myself included) have switched back to 5.1.

I agreed 👍

Apart from they included new musics, stages, remixes, Bare Knuckle Moblie Blaze as a unlocable character, include a Xbox controller map [ this helped me a lot to configure the joystick here ] and play in more plataforms like Android [ i think ] and original Xbox [ i don't know if this will play on 360 ] this update was pretty disappointing, i will keep this one for play the main game and some extra modes and 5.1 for sormaker mods.
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Post  weealls Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:16 pm

SORR Improvements/ Requests

SOR1 punk slide - One of the first things I noticed playing through V5.2 was that the SOR1 Punks now slide like they did in the original. Not only is this impossible for someone to slide that far from a standing position and lack of momentum but, it just makes them far more frustrating to deal with. In the earlier version V5.1 their slide was far more realistic and allowed the player to time the slide, jump, and land on them at the right moment setting them up for a beatdown. This was far more enjoyable to me. I feel this was an unnecessary change as you already perfected this the first time.

Mr. X standing design - Whenever Mr. X is standing still, I can't help but notice that something is off. It's either that his head is too small for his body, he looks constipated or it's the fact that he has no neck. The Big Boss demands more respect!

Mr. X trap - During the last stage of the SOR1 Route, when Mr. X asks you to join him, saying yes with both players or on your own sends you through the floor back two stages. I always thought this was a missed opportunity to an alternative route rather than making you grind all the way back to him. It's a beginners trap I get it, I just wasn't expecting the Remake to repeat the same process. Maybe Mr. X wants to test your loyalty with a challenge or maybe the floor sends us to a stage we haven't seen before. It's an idea.

Dr. Zan - Apart from Axel being my favourite character I always had an appreciation for Dr. Zan, but in the Remake, apart from his front throw every move seems so weak. His Robot physique alone gives him that physical advantage. When those hydraulic arms slam an enemy to the floor, they're being slammed with force. The same logic should apply for his punches. I noticed that his downward punch (Hold Flurry) has been replaced with some awkward looking overhead slap. Again, this was not something that needed changed. His x2/ x3 Star Blitz confused me. What was wrong with his double and triple Elbow strike? I like that you tried something different, but I think the original moves still looks better. I also chose the option for the SOR3 voices. The problem with this is that in the original SOR3, Zan roars whenever he jumps/ throws/ specials/ blitz. I think it's the Japanese version where he makes those weird breath noises. However, we get a mixture of both with the remake regardless of whatever version we choose. Can this please be fixed? On that same subject, how about a list of options for each characters voice rather than being stuck with the one version for all?

SOR3 Axel's double knee attack (Hold flurry) - I know this one may seem petty, but even the smallest of details matter. During SOR3 Axel's double knee attack during the hold flurry, the wrong sound effect is used. Compare the remake double knee attack to the SOR3 version and you'll hear the sound difference I'm talking about. Also the double knee attack is a lot faster in SOR3 than the remake, but this may be due to the combo type I chose.

Colour Editor - By far the most frustrating feature for me. There's no option to copy/save a colour. Each block doesn't describe what I'm changing (Example. Head/Feet = Colour). Though the Colour Editor is still a great feature to have, I do feel like this was rushed and was left with a lot of room for improvement. My biggest frustration with this tool is not being able to colour each individual part of a character without changing the colour of another part. I can't have the US version of SOR3 Axel because changing the colour of his shirt also changes the colour of his shoes. The possibilities for different outfits would be endless if this problem can be fixed.

Police enemies - One of my biggest requests is for new enemies. Not just any kind of enemy, but police enemies. I've tried to apply this using the colour editor with certain enemies, but it just doesn't work... The original stories told of the police being corrupt which is what makes Axel and the gang stand up for the city because no one else including the police would, but never once do you actually fight a corrupt police officer or any kind of riot gear police, not that beating up police officials would have been a good message to send to kids back in the day lol. This is one of the only few things that SOR4 introduced that I appreciated.

Boss endings - Another big request. As thorough as the team was with giving an option to almost every preference from the original games, there's one option that was missed. Boss Endings. What I'm talking about here is that whenever you beat a boss in each of the original games, each game had a specific way of ending the stage. For example:

SOR1 - Once the final strike is delivered, the boss falls to the floor at regular speed like normal. The boss music would continue to play until the scene faded to black and the Stage Clear would appear with the Stage Clear music.
SOR2 - Similar to the remake. After the final strike is delivered, the boss falls to the floor as the game speed slows down. The scene would then be interrupted by the Stage Clear and the Stage Clear music.
SOR3 - The final strike to the boss would stop the music and the game speed would slow down dramatically until the boss slams to the floor. The Stage Clear would then appear on screen along with the Stage Clear music.

I always preferred the SOR3 Boss finish. Even if the final damage came from a throw or slam the game speed would slow down just before the boss hit the floor. The Remake doesn't do this. If each of these boss endings were an option to choose from, then for me personally this would enhance the gaming experience and add one more to the list of many preferences that are offered.

A defeated boss should stay on screen - This is something that SOR2 and I think SOR1 are guilty of. When the final strike is delivered to the boss, it's possible to send them off screen. This always annoyed me in SOR2, especially when fighting Mr. X, because 9 times out of 10, I'd most likely knock or throw him off screen when really I wanted to see the animation of him failing to get up. It amused me. This is something SOR3 removed. Personally I preferred it this way, but in the remake the boss still slips half off screen. Can this at least be among the list of options, if not fixed?


SOR Maker

Mr. X boss pose - The setting to have Mr. X enter the stage with his seated boss pose has one problem, the endless waves of galsias and donovans that come with the package. If I wanted galsias and donovans to invade my scene, I would add them into it. Can this please be tweaked?

Sound effect icon - The option to place a sound effect icon onto the map. The Ambient background noise is a great option, but it got me thinking... What if, I want a sound to play only once rather than be stuck on a loop? For example, I want to create the effect of a window breaking just as a broken window is revealed in the background of the scene. A small explosion and a window smash sound effect would be perfect to create this effect. There are many more examples I could make here, but my main point is that having this feature would help mods to be more creative with their scenes.

Running outro - So we have a running intro, but what we're missing here is a running outro. I have a scene where the stage has a timer set because a bomb is about to demolish the building. Watching the character(s) casually walk off the edge of the screen, when time is of the essence, doesn't help create the drama I was looking for. This would be a handy option to have to help keep the tension going for story purposes.

Wake up intro - A wake up intro. The character(s) getting up from the ground. For example, the character(s) waking up in a prison cell like in SOR4, or after a certain situation leaves the character(s) unconscious. Just a couple of examples there but this intro helps with setting up a number of scenes.

Earthquake option on/ off - I'm not a fan of this option, simply for the reason that the effect doesn't last. I barely notice the screen shake. However, if the screen were to shake until an 'off' icon was applied similar to the rain/snow/mist/wind effect, this would work better.

Chain explosion - Another great option available but it has one issue, it only works if the player(s) is moving towards the right. Can this be applied for both sides?

Countdown Meter - Nothing lights a fire up your ass more than a countdown but this effect would work better if we could actually set the time ourselves instead of just a few options. Also an option to have the timer carry over to the next scene or more helps create a more intense experience. It really doesn't make sense that the countdown meter for a bomb resets all because the player(s) advanced to the next scene.

Heroes as Villains - By far my MAIN request! Heroes as enemies. Giving AI to the main characters and making them available for mods in the SOR Maker as enemies or bosses opens up an endless number of possibilities for stories for every mod out there. It can be done! I have faith in the team! Fighting Axel in SOR3... Heading up the glass elevator to find Max as an enemy boss in SOR4... Opening up a story after a Hero chooses to be the next Big Boss. A betrayal?! How about an army of Skates?! This could keep mods running for years to come! I think I speak for everyone here by saying that this is something that needs to be considered.


Bugs

Axel weapon dash bug - Using SOR1/ SOR2/ SOR3 Axel's dash attack with a blunt object (pipe/ plank/ bat) delivers zero damage to the weapon itself when using the SOR3 weapon type setting. I'm not sure if this was intentional seeing how all 3 versions of Axel has this issue. I only bring this up because it's went so long unnoticed.

CPU Team attack issue - Not exactly a bug but more of a pain in the ass. When selecting the CPU option for a co-op run, 9 times out of 10, the CPU will unintentionally hit me in mid air when I'm trying to use the team attack, which results in me kicking their ass for the inconvenience caused. Can't the CPU be programmed to stay dormant for at least one second after I vault over them, so that I can take advantage of the team attack in all it's glory? I am a peacock and you must let me fly!

Weapon cheat SOR3 bug - Selecting the 'Keep hold of weapons between stages' cheat actually clashes with the SOR3 weapon type setting. If you select both the cheat and SOR3 weapon type setting, the weapons become invincible and take no damage. This defeats the purpose of preferring the weapons to have damage meters.

Yamato breaks the collision map - I'm not sure how this glitch works exactly but all I know is that I have a scene in my mod where there are two pits on either side just outside of the screen, and there's two Yamato Ninja Bosses to fight. If either of the Yamato Ninja Bosses jumps, slashes or vanishes, he becomes immune to both pits, just walks right over them like Jesus or something. He even walks through the collision areas.


Last edited by weealls on Mon May 16, 2022 3:37 am; edited 3 times in total
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Post  E.Signal Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:29 pm

My top 5 things I would want in a 5.3
1.) Get rid of the evasive enemy AI behavior or at least let me turn it off in the AI editor. It's been one of my biggest turn offs about Remake. The enemies are already buffed up in 5.2, so why continue making them evasive on top of this?
2.) Make old SOR Maker mods compatible, the modders here put a lot of time and effort in their work just for an update to come out of nowhere and make all their work obsolete.
3.) Give us the SOR3 special system, using specials without meter didn't cost so much hp as it does with the BKIII special system that Remake currently uses and that system just doesn't work in a SOR game like this one where enemies are constantly ganging up on you and moving at a crazy fast speed, so being able to special often is essential in this case.
4.) Re-balance all the characters to make them better, characters like Elle were hit with nothing but nerfs while all the enemies and bosses got buffed, I wouldn't consider this to be "balanced" if the enemies are superior to the characters in some way.
5.) Bosses that appear again late game should be treated as normal enemies and shouldn't still have invincible frames on their wake up animation, get rid of that junk.
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Post  bareknuckleroo Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:35 pm

weealls wrote:Dr. Zan - Apart from Axel being my favourite character I always had an appreciation for Dr. Zan, but in the Remake, apart from his front throw every move seems so weak.

Zan is actually quite effective in the Remake. His fighting style isn't meant to be high damage, but rather focused on extremely high priority/reach on attacks, and high speed on his pokes. His throws are quite decent for damage, and he's got among the best blitzes in the game with all four of his blitzes being useful (especially the 3 Star for beating out bosses with its ridiculous priority). His use of weapons is really good too.

It's safe to say he's well above average in terms of usefulness, even if he's not top tier due to having fairly iffy jump attacks.

See: Zan's in-depth discussion thread: https://sorr.forumotion.net/t43-in-depth-character-discussion-zan

Character tier list discussion thread: https://sorr.forumotion.net/t875-discussion-character-tier-list-for-v5-2


I noticed that his downward punch (Hold Flurry) has been replaced with some awkward looking overhead slap. Again, this was not something that needed changed.

I can't remember why this was changed but I think it was because they found some unused graphics in SoR3 and decided to implement those. From a functional standpoint his flurry grab is the same as it was before and you should be using throws to finish your grab attacks anyways.


His x2/ x3 Star Blitz confused me. What was wrong with his double and triple Elbow strike?

Other than literally being the worst blitzes in SoR3? Seriously, in SoR3 his double and triple dash force you to the bottom of the screen and have non-noteworthy damage. They're awful. SoRR gives him dashes you can control yourself to attack diagonally with much like SoR3 Skate's 2 and 3 star blitzes, and they're among the best blitzes in the entire game. His 3 star blitz in SoRR has ridiculous priority and the diagonal ability basically lets you mow down dangerous bosses as well as crowds of regular enemies.

Really, Zan works quite well in SoRR when you adjust to his hit and run playstyle. The only genuinely awful thing about him is the lack of any decent jump attacks but he's incredibly fast and effective on the ground. Even if his raw damage per hit isn't outstanding, the fact that he can dish it out safely and effectively, beating out many dangerous bosses with his blitzes, is super useful.

It sounds like you need to use Zan more in SoRR to fully appreciate the subtle rebalancing he's had. He's way more effective than he was in SoR3.

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