So... SoR Mania, anyone?

I made this account just to share my opinion on the matter as i feel many here would agree...

Wouldn't it be great if after the (incoming) critical success of Sonic Mania, that SEGA announce more collaboration with another creator(s) of quality fan-made content related to their own IPs? Especially if it was a group of peeps we here all appreciate

After SEGAs announcement of their business plans a few weeks back (including reviving IPs), and in light of Sonic Mania, do you think something like this may/will happen? As someone who grew up with the Mega Drive (Genesis) and clocked more than an unhealthy amount of hours on the SoR trilogy as well as so many others, it would mean the world to me to hear of a collaboration of some sorts between SEGA and Bomber Games. For all the years of hard work, personal time and love put into this fan project which I'm sure, most SoR fans could agree pays homage and then some to its original counterparts, it would be heartwarming to see them finally getting their dues.

For all the awesomeness of the series, and for the masterpiece that is SoR V5, I keep my fingers crossed for something. Seems like its maybe, something AGES in the making...?

I made a thread saying the same thing awhile back. The programmer (BomberLink) left the project when Sega wasn't indie-friendly. It would be cool if he did come back and work something out w/ Sega, but the chances of that happening is slim.

It would be cool to add online modes and leaderboards to the mix.

Sega should come and ask themselves. Even back then, they were ok with Sonic fangames being made, but not Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, or Phantasy Star games/hacks. Fuck them.

I may sound like an abrasive bastard but here are the facts, Sonic has a big cancerous fanbase which Sega intends on milking dry, Sor is more of a cult classic from a niche genre so it won't get any new games from Sega.

Seems more possible now, with all the old school franchises being resurrected. If Shaq Fu can make a comeback, then SoR damn well should. lol But even if it doesn't, Remake V5 is very much the Mania of the SoR series. I do appreciate the mod support and editable soundtrack.

I'd love to compose for an official new title. Me and Deejay Verstyle could be the Yuzo and Motohiro of the indie world. hehe

Iceferno wrote:Seems more possible now, with all the old school franchises being resurrected. If Shaq Fu can make a comeback, then SoR damn well should. lol But even if it doesn't, Remake V5 is very much the Mania of the SoR series. I do appreciate the mod support and editable soundtrack.

I'd love to compose for an official new title. Me and Deejay Verstyle could be the Yuzo and Motohiro of the indie world. hehe

well my friend this is Sega(Sega of Japan specifically) we're dealing with and they are some of the most STUBBORN gaming companies ever aside from Nintendo. Sega really lacks the "common sense" so to speak.

They do tend to whore out their top IPs, much like Nintendo, it's true. I guess seeing is believing, as has already been mentioned. Although Beat 'Em Ups do seem to be making a comeback of sorts, so I think those will be stepping stones. If Sonic Mania can happen, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility.

Iceferno wrote:They do tend to whore out their top IPs, much like Nintendo, it's true. I guess seeing is believing, as has already been mentioned. Although Beat 'Em Ups do seem to be making a comeback of sorts, so I think those will be stepping stones. If Sonic Mania can happen, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility.

Technically speaking, they never went away, games like DMC,Ninja Gaiden and Ys are pretty much next gen evolution of beat em ups, what sucks is that SoR is one of the best 2d Beat em ups ever made and it never had a 4th game.

Sonic games still happen because of the weird cultish fanbase it has, Sonic has like a billion games SoR only has 3. Hell, with that Netflix Animated show i think it's more likely for a new Castlevania being made than a new SoR! Even Nintendo is making like 2 Metroid games now, Sega need to smell the coffee already! Sonic is a joke when compared to Earthworm jim, SoR, Strider,Shinobi, CV: Bloodlines, Phantasy Star and like literally everything else in Genesis's A line up. Sonic is nothing but continuous nostalgia pandering(though I'd say that for a lot of Mario&Zelda games but they are all very good at least, Sonic was never an A tier game to begin with).

Oh yeah, the Castlevania show. I need to see that, I hear it's good. I remember when that was announced, there was supposedly going to be Altered Beast, Golden Axe and I think even a SoR show.

But yeah, Sonic is being beaten like a dead horse. I was at a convention on Friday and they had Forces going on. It just looks like Adventure 2 again. Some of the online posters I've seen include Generations' 2D Sonic as well, so I wonder if it's a sequel? I haven't bothered looking into it further.

Not going to lie, it's pretty sad that we have to resort to bashing another fan base to get a point cross about a game we hold dear. Seriously Sonic isn't going anywhere anytime soon and stuff like Sonic Mania is going to pave the way to getting more classics revived. Whining about Sonic getting so much attention is pointless.

As far as a Streets of Rage Mania goes, I would love for remake to get endorsed. I don't really see it happening due to the fact that anyone who wants it has it and it's over half a decade old. I think B really missed an opportunity here though by not making the engine open source or even taking the engine and maybe recreating the games separately. Taxman didn't get SEGA's attention the first or even second time, it took some pestering to get where he is now. People saying SEGA should hire Bomberlink seem to completely miss the point raised above, B doesn't seem interested in doing any of that otherwise he would've taken some action by now right?

If there's a new game I'll gladly wait as long as it takes to get a decent follow up. I don't want sega just doing a game to jump on the retro bandwagon, SoR needs to be handled with care. It's not just some standard brawler, the whole series offers a lot to the genre and each game has it's own merits especially if your a fan who's played them extensively and know the ins and outs of each game and what makes them practically different games.

Remake set a standard that's going to be tough to live up to imho and games like FightnRage (which you should check out by the way, seriously) are a rarity among these recent brawlers that either completely miss the mark or just falls a bit short due to not understanding what made these classic gems so fun back in the day. Think we should be focusing on what we actually want out of a new SoR (if we even want or trust sega to make one) and not waiting on some magical sequel to fall out of thin air.

I don't think anyone was so much whining about Sonic, as expressing observations.

I've read that some people would want a direct sequel in the SoR series, but how's that supposed to work when Mr. X died in SoR3? I think the series would work better as an anthology. I'd be more excited for something new, especially since it would be difficult to continue the story, unless the antagonist was new. But I think it's time we got a new city and new world for the characters to fight through.

Iceferno wrote:I've read that some people would want a direct sequel in the SoR series, but how's that supposed to work when Mr. X died in SoR3? I think the series would work better as an anthology. I'd be more excited for something new, especially since it would be difficult to continue the story, unless the antagonist was new. But I think it's time we got a new city and new world for the characters to fight through.

Eh, beat em ups aren't known for their riveting story telling but there's plenty of different excuses to bring back Mr.X, Transfer of consciousness via technology (PxZ2 made reference of this using Break), Another guy taking the mantle of Mr.X, reference to the alternative ending in 3 where Mr.X is alive and observing from afar (it's not like they ever explained exactly how putting his brain in stasis was even necessary) Just to name a few.

The 3rd game in the series already opened the door to Robot Clones, bio chemical warfare among other things it's not really much of a stretch that resurrection would be next in line. Hell, Mr.X had his own private island in 2, where does this guy get all this money? LOL

I definitely want a follow up but first and foremost the gameplay better be fun and addicting like the originals and of course the soundtrack has to be stellar.

Mr.Din wrote:Not going to lie, it's pretty sad that we have to resort to bashing another fan base to get a point cross about a game we hold dear. Seriously Sonic isn't going anywhere anytime soon and stuff like Sonic Mania is going to pave the way to getting more classics revived. Whining about Sonic getting so much attention is pointless.

I think this is pretty much the way it's going to be. This is one of the very few reasons why I bought Sonic Mania last month so that Sega can see that people will support them if they actually get people who care about their products (the other being that Christian Whitehead is legitimately a good dude and I want to support him in any way I can). This was the first Sega-related product I've bought ever since they shut down SORR back in April 2011.

They've also been kinda nice to Yu Suzuki for allowing him to make Shenmue 3, which is something that I should give them more credit for, but I still want them to do an HD port for the first two games to help that game out sales wise.

Saven wrote:

Mr.Din wrote:Not going to lie, it's pretty sad that we have to resort to bashing another fan base to get a point cross about a game we hold dear. Seriously Sonic isn't going anywhere anytime soon and stuff like Sonic Mania is going to pave the way to getting more classics revived. Whining about Sonic getting so much attention is pointless.

I think this is pretty much the way it's going to be. This is one of the very few reasons why I bought Sonic Mania last month so that Sega can see that people will support them if they actually get people who care about their products (the other being that Christian Whitehead is legitimately a good dude and I want to support him in any way I can). This was the first Sega-related product I've bought ever since they shut down SORR back in April 2011.

They've also been kinda nice to Yu Suzuki for allowing him to make Shenmue 3, which is something that I should give them more credit for, but I still want them to do an HD port for the first two games to help that game out sales wise.

Indeed I think outside of Yakuza I haven't bought any other Sega products myself but Mania was an instant buy. I don't know Christian outside of those remakes of the classic games but anyone willing to give classic Sonic a proper revival is okay in my book, him being a huge fan of the series only makes it even better.

It just goes to show how much sega's changed over the years, they're not quite there yet but they're making the effort at least and it looks like the staff change did wonders.

Mr.Din wrote:Eh, beat em ups aren't known for their riveting story telling but there's plenty of different excuses to bring back Mr.X, Transfer of consciousness via technology (PxZ2 made reference of this using Break), Another guy taking the mantle of Mr.X, reference to the alternative ending in 3 where Mr.X is alive and observing from afar (it's not like they ever explained exactly how putting his brain in stasis was even necessary) Just to name a few.

The 3rd game in the series already opened the door to Robot Clones, bio chemical warfare among other things it's not really much of a stretch that resurrection would be next in line. Hell, Mr.X had his own private island in 2, where does this guy get all this money? LOL

I definitely want a follow up but first and foremost the gameplay better be fun and addicting like the originals and of course the soundtrack has to be stellar.

Well, I'd prefer if the clone/robot stuff was limited to one game. That's what gave SoR3 its character. Though personally it felt like a spinoff because it was so different from the first two. Spinoffs could be another direction, of course.

Mr.Din wrote:Indeed I think outside of Yakuza I haven't bought any other Sega products myself but Mania was an instant buy. I don't know Christian outside of those remakes of the classic games but anyone willing to give classic Sonic a proper revival is okay in my book, him being a huge fan of the series only makes it even better.

It just goes to show how much sega's changed over the years, they're not quite there yet but they're making the effort at least and it looks like the staff change did wonders.

I hope if SoR is rebooted, and by Christian, they don't make it so damn hard. Mania is overall decent, but some of those bosses are bullshit. Bomberlink pushed it a bit with SoRR, but I think V5 was handled better than 4 (which makes sense).

Iceferno wrote:Well, I'd prefer if the clone/robot stuff was limited to one game. That's what gave SoR3 its character. Though personally it felt like a spinoff because it was so different from the first two. Spinoffs could be another direction, of course.

That's the first I've heard of 3 being different from the first two as opposed to all of them being different. 2 had robots, blanka clones, bionic whip arm ladies, amusement parks, secret islands, jetpack men, alien themed animatronics complete with exploding eggs. If anything SoR1 is the only tame game in the series, I think we're a far cry from the crazy stuff being limited to one game lol.

I hope if SoR is rebooted, and by Christian, they don't make it so damn hard. Mania is overall decent, but some of those bosses are bullshit. Bomberlink pushed it a bit with SoRR, but I think V5 was handled better than 4 (which makes sense).

Only boss I really had trouble with was that mirage saloon act 1 boss with Sonic (& Tails). v5 needed some serious balancing with the characters, some of the enemies clearly were amped up to stand a chance against the likes of Shiva and Max but other than that it really doesn't get too bad til Mania mode.

As long as they avoid the stupid stuff done in 3's localization (or at least save that stuff for some insane difficulty level) I'm fine with it.

Mr. Din wrote:As long as they avoid the stupid stuff done in 3's localization (or at least save that stuff for some insane difficulty level) I'm fine with it.

What "stupid stuff" specifically? All I can think of is damage boosting. I also know a bunch of stuff was improved during localization, like rolling, Skate's blitz, Roo's jump and jab, bike collision, better difficulty, and some bug fixes. If you take away the damage boosts, I don't think SoR3 would be very challenging, as the purpose was to bring the challenge that BKIII didn't have.
Anyways, I do think that the damage boosting should start on later modes (but not be too high either), maybe from Hard/Hardest to Mania (if these are the difficulties). Same goes for enemies stealing food. I wouldn't boost damage for picking 2P mode, but certainly the AI aggressiveness. 2P Mode should also have some more enemies spawning.

Actually why we're on the topic of Mania, we know Sonic Mania is filled to the brim with references and call backs. What kind of references would you guys like to see in this theoretical SoR Mania? I wouldn't mind the train from the GG SoR2 make a return, some die hard arcade, spikeout, shinobi references would be cool too.

Mr.Din wrote:

Iceferno wrote:Well, I'd prefer if the clone/robot stuff was limited to one game. That's what gave SoR3 its character. Though personally it felt like a spinoff because it was so different from the first two. Spinoffs could be another direction, of course.

That's the first I've heard of 3 being different from the first two as opposed to all of them being different. 2 had robots, blanka clones, bionic whip arm ladies, amusement parks, secret islands, jetpack men, alien themed animatronics complete with exploding eggs. If anything SoR1 is the only tame game in the series, I think we're a far cry from the crazy stuff being limited to one game lol.

I consider #2 very much a 2.0. It combines the first and second games into a bit of a remix, and also kind of drops hints to #3 with its inclusion of robots (there may even be stuff in 3 that was cut from 2). I think the reason the third is so different is that they kind of upgraded for 2 and wanted to try something new. I probably consider it a spinoff because there's only three official games, and it feels like the odd one out. It's the same with the BioShock series. The first 2 were very close to each other, but because there hasn't been a 4th, Infinite seems way out there, even though it's later revealed to connect to the series.

Iceferno wrote:
Well, I'd prefer if the clone/robot stuff was limited to one game. That's what gave SoR3 its character. Though personally it felt like a spinoff because it was so different from the first two. Spinoffs could be another direction, of course.

I too have felt like SoR3/BKIII, especially BKIII, felt the most like a weird spinoff or reboot of the series. SoR3 oddly tries to connect the games together more in terms of story and actually make it feel like a sequel. The only thing that makes it feel like a sequel is the fact that the bios of Axel and Blaze mention they were reinstated as officers and Mr.X mentions something about being severely injured. But there is no reference to Adam being kidnapped, they seem to act like Mr.X is well and alive, and going strong despite the fact he should have been dead, they never talk about Skate having once helped to save Adam (which should have been in his bio, but all it says is he offers to help the team) So if BKIII somehow took place in between SoR1 and SoR2, it wouldn't seem out of place at all.

Mr.Din wrote:Actually why we're on the topic of Mania, we know Sonic Mania is filled to the brim with references and call backs. What kind of references would you guys like to see in this theoretical SoR Mania?

Like you said, I would like to see them take ideas done in the GG/SMS ports and such. Namely the train. That is most certainly something I would like to see. There are also callbacks that are inevitably going to be in the game, like in some of the music, and old ideas being used, such as boat stages, and elevators among many other things. But if you were to ask me, I would actually prefer they tone down on the callbacks/throwbacks and nostalgia pandering. From what I heard, Christian was forced to put that into Sonic Mania by someone at Sega. But at the end of the day, I would honestly prefer they keep that stuff to add little nods to the franchise, which is fine, and in fact, probably something needed so that it makes the game feel more inviting to old fans, and the fact that SoR2 itself even had callbacks to SoR1 despite not needing to, it's inevitable that they are going to be in. Either that, or use old ideas to twist it into new ideas, or find new ways to do them. Like, for example, instead of reusing Barbon and redoing him to mix cocktail and then run out into the alleyway, use someone possibly doing a similar type of undercover job, and maybe either make that person run off, or possibly flip over the counter and fight you there. I would also prefer they don't reuse old levels complete with covers of old tracks, or if they were, make it look different, or have it function in a new way, like say, you enter the theme park, and new rides are added, or you go through different rides, or if you want to reuse the pirate boat, have them jump on there a different way. I don't mind old levels coming back if they go about them differently. I think the game would be more interesting and last longer if they kept the nods in the background but made it a whole new game, not just a remake with new levels. I would say, if they really wanted to reuse old levels, that they should probably make them DLC or unlockable depending on however they want to go about that. I also think they should keep old sprites of the characters as either DLC or unlockable as well. I mean let's be honest, if people really wanted nostalgia, couldn't they just go and play the old games?
Hopefully, the fact that SoRR exists will make them feel less compelled to reuse old levels like that. Otherwise, we would just be having a variation of SoRR that may be slightly prettier looking, or have more polish. I actually wouldn't mind if SoRR levels and ideas could be referenced in the new SoR Mania or whatever you want to call it. Especially if they want to remix/reference Entertainment Street.

Mr.Din wrote: wouldn't mind the train from the GG SoR2 make a return, some die hard arcade, spikeout, shinobi references would be cool too.

Shenmue references, can't forget about that. Gotta put Tomato Convenience Store in there. Oh, and can't forget those Bellwood soda machines. I would also like to see Shinobi references and possibly even Golden Axe references. Like, some shop called "Tyris' Flame Broiled Steak" or something.

At the end of the day, at this point in time. I think I can actually trust a new SoR installment as opposed to how I would have felt about this five years ago, when I know it would have been a AAA game that was nothing but shitty rap music and wannabe gangsters, and also have the mood be way too much into dark and gritty realism to the point it just comes off as miserable and bland. Seeing how there has been a big rise in more bright, colorful, and even somewhat bombastic 2D games in the past years, I think I could actually expect to see a tone close to that of SoR1 or SoR2. It should be a little bit gritty, because all installments have their gritty moments, even SoR2 (though SoR3 went too far, IMO, with the gritty realism), but I don't want it to be this dark, edgetard experience where the characters all seem to have tourette's syndrome and don't know how to keep their pants up. I think I can trust them to avoid that now. I can also now trust them to actually make a game that resembles the originals in terms of gameplay and graphics. The only thing I worry about now is how much nostalgia pandering and throwbacks will they put in? And will it follow the old ones TOO much to the point they end up recreating, or at least halfway recreating entire levels?

The next thing I would dread seeing is us receiving yet another Social Justice Warrior hack with douchebag caliber difficulty. But other than that, I can say I would be more optimistic about another SoR installment. Even if it did go the sonic mania route and have those callbacks, it is at least a step in the right direction, so I wouldn't be livid, I would just continue to roll my eyes and say "Come on, now." I just think the excessive nostalgia pandering needs to stop, and they need to move forward, even if they do make the gameplay style classic/2D Sidescrolling. I would actually like to see more people pull another shovel knight or Paprium where they bring a classic style, but still move forward with things. Hell, paprium is continuing to push the console's limits. That, in my opinion, ironically, actually brings back the feeling of the old days and may even bring a similar feeling to the next generation. That alongside giving these games a more modern or ambigious setting. Especially considering people to this day still think of the Genesis as weak hardware, and thus it still has something to prove. I am also crazy in the sense that I want to see a whole new game made that is NOT set in, or even referencing the 80s and 90s, is set in moderns times, yet is on the genesis and has 2D gameplay, but at the same time moves forward with pushing the console's limits and doing things that have not been done before, both on the genesis AND in general if possible. But hey, I'm weird I guess. Hell, I made a huge wall of text and expect people to read.

Damn Cosmo went in, LOL! I'm actually on the fence about nostalgia pandering, I wouldn't want too much pandering to take away the game's identity but at the same time this is a revival, a reboot of the series introducing this to new audiences so we need a little something to show them what we love so much about the series.

I'd actually rather they explore this new territory that 3 brought about as far as story goes just keep away from the edgelord stuff, the cast being super cops who can punch through walls, robots and machinery is okay in my book. Introduce some more menacing enemies, bring back the Fist of the North Star feeling that was in SoR1 but with crazy anime shite from 2 and the science-y feel of 3. The possibilities with SoR are pretty endless as long as it keeps it in proper context.

That's one thing I don't want to see is toning down of this stuff, the concepts of the past were great and all but just going back to the standard Streets and simple goons is just boring even 2 went crazy with stuff. The games were all different in tone, atmosphere and direction 2 had similarities to 1 as far as stage tropes go but that was about it, introducing powers, more bouncy music, a kid on roller skates, a pro wrestler, lighter stages like the amusement park I could go on but ancient's direction was a far cry from 1's more grounded approach. If anything 3 toned down a few things to get back to that even if leaning a little too hard on the serious, gritty side of things.

But here's the question, what modern references would fit in this new SoR game? I'm with Cosmo on a modern upgrade but it's gotta be done right.

I think in terms of modern influence, perhaps Street Fighter IV's slightly cell-shaded style could work. Completely cell-shaded could be too cartoony, so more of a fusion might be better received.

I see your point about each game in the trilogy, but they do have their own character, and I'd like a new one to have it's own, but with the right familiarities. It does seem odd that the diagonal paths were never brought over to SoR3. Maybe not everyone enjoyed them.

Iceferno wrote:It does seem odd that the diagonal paths were never brought over to SoR3. Maybe not everyone enjoyed them.

Would be nice for the paths to go not just forward and downward, but in different directions. As for SoR3, I'm not sure where the diagonal scrolling would fit, and the most I've seen from paths going different directions is entering different rooms and moving around Stage 6's interior (free-roam).

They probably felt the diagonal sections were more trouble than it was worth for a gimmick. It brings variety but at the same time it's a bit annoying to navigate at times. Maybe if they fine tune it and of course with vertical running it might be better utilized, Golden Axe 3 did pretty well with the diagonal pieces imo.

Iceferno wrote:I think in terms of modern influence, perhaps Street Fighter IV's slightly cell-shaded style could work. Completely cell-shaded could be too cartoony, so more of a fusion might be better received.

Please no 3d graphics. way too easy to fuck up with that. SFIV and V look ugly as hell. Just give me some nice smooth 2d animations with insane details mania style, SEGA's probably going to budget this game anyway so less is more. Designs could use a more modern spin but nothing too crazy, the characters don't really look all that dated so it shouldn't be too hard to update their designs and keep it classic. Of course the gameplay definitely has to have some updates with games like FnR, DDN, hell remake itself existing.

What about the cast though? Should Zan return? I don't see a reason for him not to but there also isn't much reason for him to either. New characters, maybe start with the veterans and have unlockable allies and enemies, keep the roster fun and as closed to balanced as possible.

Mr.Din wrote:I wouldn't want too much pandering to take away the game's identity but at the same time this is a revival, a reboot of the series introducing this to new audiences so we need a little something to show them what we love so much about the series.

Yeah, I am fine with that and, in fact, think it's inevitable. I would be crazy to think no nods would be included. I mean, even SoR2, which didn't need them, included nods. Hell, even SoR3 included nods. The main SoR melody, meaning that one piano one that is included in all games, will have to be in this one. Yeah, my issue is when they feel the need to introduce stages from old games, and especially if they completely recreate them. Remake already took care of that, and it works for remake, and it works if they intended to do some kind of a reboot/retelling. I think there should be nods to the past to, as you said, show what we love about the series, especially if it has been so long, and also to feel welcoming to old players. But I think they should limit how many references and reoccurring old levels get reused and recreated. If they really wanted to do that, as I said, throw it off to DLC.

Mr.Din wrote:I'd actually rather they explore this new territory that 3 brought about as far as story goes just keep away from the edgelord stuff, the cast being super cops who can punch through walls, robots and machinery is okay in my book. Introduce some more menacing enemies, bring back the Fist of the North Star feeling that was in SoR1 but with crazy anime shite from 2 and the science-y feel of 3. The possibilities with SoR are pretty endless as long as it keeps it in proper context.

I agree. I like the insanity that SoR2 included. It was the epitome of old gaming where their method was "We're just going to put in everything cool, and also show off cool things to push the genesis to its limits. Doesn't matter if it makes no sense." I would like to see a new game be more like that.

Going off into my own thing. There is also ideas that I think should be put into a new SoR game that hasn't been done before. One is the ability to block attacks. Perhaps even the ability to counter attack like SFA/SF3. I would also like to see SFA/FF3 style super moves, as well as FF3/SoRR's free roam running.

Mr.Din wrote:That's one thing I don't want to see is toning down of this stuff, the concepts of the past were great and all but just going back to the standard Streets and simple goons is just boring even 2 went crazy with stuff. The games were all different in tone, atmosphere and direction 2 had similarities to 1 as far as stage tropes go but that was about it, introducing powers, more bouncy music, a kid on roller skates, a pro wrestler, lighter stages like the amusement park I could go on but ancient's direction was a far cry from 1's more grounded approach. If anything 3 toned down a few things to get back to that even if leaning a little too hard on the serious, gritty side of things.

I agree. SoR1 worked for what it was, but SoR2 set a whole new standard for what the SoR series is, and they should probably move forward with that. It would be like if, in Street Fighter III or the alpha games, you could only play as Ryu again, the opponents were back to boring cultural stereotypes, and Ken was back to player 2. SoR1 being more realistic in tone, as I said, fits, but it's nothing to go back to. SoR1 does have great ideas that can be explored again, but its realistic and down to earth tone are not one of them. SoR3's mistake is also that it tried to tone things down and become too gritty, dark, and serious. Although it is a lot less realistic and down to earth than 1, it's still a step down. Had SoR3 come in between 1 and 2, it would have been better and more acceptable, but it was largely just a product of its time as well. Trying to take something that had established itself, and try to become hip with the time by being more gritty, and dark.

Mr.Din wrote:But here's the question, what modern references would fit in this new SoR game? I'm with Cosmo on a modern upgrade but it's gotta be done right.

I would like to see that, but to be honest, if SoR4 were to take place slightly after SoR3, or if they were going to reboot the series, and have it all take place in the 90s, then 90s reference are more than welcome, honestly. But I kind of would like to see a new installment take place in modern times and do it right, because I know it can be done right. I had this idea that there is a character that is a reference to One Punch Man's 'Sonic'. Possibly along other potential characters from OPM. Also some modern movies, animes, and shows. I would largely like to see them move forward instead of recreate what was already there, like just do a new sprite sheet, or a 3D model, of SoR2 Axel. The only time I wouldn't mind that is if they decided they were going to reboot/retell the series. I wouldn't mind seeing an alternate arch, actually, and if they did, I would prefer they have 90s references because, well, they are set in the 90s. Hell, I had an idea for a game that is set in the late 80s and leads up to the events of SoR1.