Why is SoR2 considered the best game?

I mean I get that Nostalgia must be a factor, The music is great, the graphics are an improvement over the first game and the stages are nice, but to me the Gameplay is just too slow clunky.

SoR3 had the best gameplay IMO, with all the addition to combat like star attacks, running and dodgerolling. the combat was more fast paced which I found much more enjoyable. I must admit though that I'm not a huge fan of the music in the game, it's not bad but it felt too different from the first 2 games, The stages didn't feel as good either though that might be because of the accompanying music, would the stages have been better if I enjoyed the music?

I'd like to talk about the first one but I have very thick nostalgia glasses for that game, it was the only 1 of the 3 I had owned as a kid and i played it alot with my cousin and my brother, the music and stages are burned into my memory that I cannot help but smile when is see/hear them so i'm too biased.

All in all though I cannot decide on which is the definitive game because 2 and 3 are so good in different aspects for me. that's why SoRR for me is the best game because it takes the best of all of them, I cannot think of a single thing the original 3 does that the Remake doesn't do better.

I hope this topic doesn't cause trouble, I just don't understand how SoR2 can be considered the absolute undisputed best game ever while also S*****g on the other 2 (Mostly 3)

Because Bare Knuckle 3 is not Streets of Rage 3. Any other release than the japanese original, was a different game altogether. I would link you to soronline which has a detailed analysis, but unfortunately, it is down. So i will try to get it fast:

a. They are different games entirely, different story.
b. Japanese is the "normal" difficulty, other versions are the "very hard" ones.
c. Japanese had "uncensored" female outfits/models, Ash player (the gay fighter) as first boss and incomplete motorbike level(s?), last of which was entirely absent in non japanese versions.

And some other things. One was good, but Two is considered the best game, at least concerning originals and normal versions. Also, because MAX obviously!!! Playing 2 as Max was simply the best experience ever! Just like playing golden axe 3 with the Max-like beastie! And naturally, because of Max, yet certainly, surely because of Max!

Security wrote:Because Bare Knuckle 3 is not Streets of Rage 3. Any other release than the japanese original, was a different game altogether. I would link you to soronline which has a detailed analysis, but unfortunately, it is down. So i will try to get it fast:

a. They are different games entirely, different story.
b. Japanese is the "normal" difficulty, other versions are the "very hard" ones.
c. Japanese had "uncensored" female outfits/models, Ash player (the gay fighter) as first boss and incomplete motorbike level(s?), last of which was entirely absent in non japanese versions.

And some other things. One was good, but Two is considered the best game, at least concerning originals and normal versions. Also, because MAX obviously!!! Playing 2 as Max was simply the best experience ever! Just like playing golden axe 3 with the Max-like beastie! And naturally, because of Max, yet certainly, surely because of Max!

I guess I never really experienced the horror of the English version of SoR3. I think I probably just played the Japanese version as a Rom.
I guess it makes a lot of sense then why people say the 3rd is the worst. All the pieces have fallen into place.

Nostalgia aside (it was the first game I've ever played), it just had the best soundtrack in the series IMO, the most interesting locations to fight in, and the gameplay was so perfect and felt so satisfying. It had my favorite group of characters to choose from along with some of my favorite enemies making an appearance. It took the best things from all other beat em ups before and refined it as best as it could have. The difficulty was great for people who never played video games and could barely get through the game on the lower levels while hardcore fans could enjoy a better challenge like Mania. Enemy placement was fantastic and you could tell that Ancient was having a fun time making this game.

I love the other games in the series as well, but SOR2 just took it to a level that the other two couldn't reach. SOR1 was a great game too with awesome locations and fun gameplay. It did everything it could with the small amount of memory it had. SOR2 felt like SOR1 but with everything that Sega wanted to do the first time around. BK3 was fun too, but I never cared for its nonsensical anime plot (why a crime boss would decide to get involved with starting World War III, I will never know), and I hated how weak everyone became gameplay-wise, not to mention it wasn't satisfying anymore (Axel felt like he was punching a paperbag). I liked some of the new additions like the Special Bar and upgraded moves, but the weaker attacks, forced locations due to story, and how rushed the game felt made this my least favorite of the three. However, these are still some of my favorite games of all time, with SOR2 being #4 on my list.

Now SOR3....bad rom hack. I have not played it much since I got my hands on BK3.

SoR2 is just a solid package, it aged very well for what it is. Sure BK3 had some improvements but it's the things that it messed up that did it in imho. SoR2 in some cases leaves a little to be desired, some things that was missing from SoR1 but we also have to keep in mind even SoR1 was pretty advanced for the genre, so the couple of things SoR2 was missing didn't hurt it too much and various people's eyes. I would like a hack that simply restores the throw escape move, maybe fix some collision issues and honestly? it would be perfect to me.

tl;dr The game just does enough right to make it memorable and it stands the test of time, it's not perfect but it's damn close enough.

Saven wrote:(why a crime boss would decide to get involved with starting World War III, I will never know)

The Clintons can answer your question, riddle solved easily!

I consider 2 the worst game. Here's why:

Mechanics
It has clunky and slow gameplay and strange collision detection. This game uses pause delay for attacks, so every time you hit something you slow down a bit after each hit. This means you can't just walk during your combo to an enemy for a grab unless you're right by them. There even seems to be a bug in this game where the jump gets slowed at times. The game doesn't even use normal hitboxes, but instead a line from the center of the sprite to the designated attack point (which is probably how SoRRv5 works too, using the control points). I've also seen my attacks go right through enemies like Jet and Vehelits not hitting. Only Skate is allowed to run, as every other character is forced to walk. Streets of Rage 3 coming out with running as a universal ability proves that this was just dumb. Even with that, Skate's run feels clunky when you have to turn around to run in the other direction, as you have to turn around first and then do the run. He doesn't carry the momentum from his run into his jump, as well. The team attacks and grab escape throws from the first game are absent. You can still throw your partner, but that player won't have the strong aerial attack and has to hold UP+Jump. Jump kicks do small damage, and only Blaze's can hit every enemy because it has multiple attack frames. Characters like Axel or Max can do a jump kick and might pass through an enemy because it has one attack frame extended for a long duration. There are also no pits in any of the levels, which is part of what made the first game fun.

Annoying Enemies
   There are parts of the game where a room (at times a small, cramped room) is clustered with annoying enemies that make even moving around the level hard. Some annoying enemies are ninjas, jetpack fighters, and bikers. Jet is obviously in the air, so he is hard to hit and cannot be comboed unless he gets close enough to the ground. He has inescapable grabs too. Ninjas move around fast and they do a double-hit jumping attack when it should be one hit. They also throw you by other enemies and throw projectiles. Bikers have quick combo punches, grabs from behind, and quick knock down punches. When bikers grab you from behind, using special attack or mashing back-attack can hit the biker away, but using the special attack costs some of your life. Max's back attack seems to be the only one that works in this case, so other characters would special out of the grab.

Unbalanced Character Roster
   The character roster feels unbalanced, as Axel and Max (especially Axel) feel like the only characters worth playing as. Skate and Blaze require more skill to use, as using them makes the game a bit harder.
- Axel generally has a good moveset, and his Grand Upper is spammed throughout the game because of how good of a move it is.
- Max may be slow, but he deals so much damage, some moves destroy almost an entire life bar. The slide gives him more mobility and hits enemies standing in front. He can hit behind and in front with pipes and swords, but he can't hit above him because he was only given two swing frames for the back and front hits.
- Skate is the fastest and has some good moves, but other attacks are low in power and range. His overhead throw can throw either way, but I've gotten hit when landing right after doing it. His back attack moves you towards the enemy as you attack behind, so this could be either good or bad depending on how you use it. His skates give him better aerial attack power.
- I see Blaze as the worst of the four. She has some good moves too (examples are neutral jump kick and back-attack which hits in front and back), but her primary combo is slow and she jumps a little too high for her jump kick, so she can be anti-aired. Her Kikoshou attack can be cancelled due to enemy attacks, though it is a powerful single-strike move. Her high kick does not always knock down, and it seems to move her forward a bit whenever the game feels like it. Her defensive special seems to have the worst range of the bunch, too.

Overall, I say 2 is the worst. I don't know why 3 gets criticized more than this game, since it's more dynamic and expansive than the other two games.

^ I agree, I know most people worship SOR2, but it wasn't my favorite of the series either. I still have a super soft spot for SOR1 which, despite the early build and the lack of things it had compared with its competitor Final Fight, I think it's a lot more immersive and with really amazing features that weren't touched in the further games anymore.

I guess the reason SOR3 gets bashed badly was due of the horrible American port of BKIII (the ridiculous censorship, the WTF storyline and the excessively dragging Mania mode), but technically speaking, BKIII was the peak of the series regarding mechanics. It was polished and even the enemies didn't feel as broken as SOR2 ones.

We've been discussing this topic several times in the past, especially the hatred on SOR3, however, I see still few good decent things from SOR3... for instance the Very Hard mode I believe it's the real Mania (as in balanced difficulty and not just boring super long health bars).

Guess it's needless to say that SORR pretty much brought perfection putting the best of the 3 games in one.

SOR2 just ended up being the most polished episode in the series made with obvious tons of care and passion by its team (interview from Koshiro confirmed that).
If you compare it with the lacking port of FF1 on the SNES, it's just mind blowing and of course, its OST is considered one of the best Yushiro scores and one of the best megadrive OST.
The game also ages pretty well.

On another topic, my favorite ended up being BK3 with time however.
I love its focus on the feeling on emergency, speed, conspiracy, how it pushed the gameplay even further with the new abilities and moves, how it brought back SOR1 elements like the pits, the twins, the unthrowable fat guys,  the teammove attack and the grapple defensive moves and how it added interactive scenes. BKIII definitely tried to fix the feeling of slowness you could have in SOR2.
Unfortunately, it was born under a bad star apparently.
The game couldn't be completely finished and polished, and some awesome things like the motorbike stages could not be included after all. Plenty of removed things that could have made the game the best in the series and the fact that SOA completely screwed the Western version up didn't help.
Also its OST which I actually love was experimental and kinda ahead of its time and not to everyone's taste.
Truly frustrating actually that such a game was not able to reach its full potential.

SoR2 is the best game in the series, this isn't even a question worth asking.

I'm pretty sure I get it now. despite the great advancements to the gameplay from SoR3/BK3, all the problems that came with it overshadowed it. While SoR2's gameplay is playable and there are many other elements like the areas, music etc that tip the scales in it's favor.

Luckily we have SoRR as a way to combine the best of each game together into what is undoubtedly the most enjoyable game of all of them.

I'm actually currently building a Raspberry Pi 3 to play the game on that I can take places to play with others because Couch Coop is definitely a great part of each game.

Sshadow5001 wrote:I'm pretty sure I get it now. despite the great advancements to the gameplay from SoR3/BK3, all the problems that came with it overshadowed it. While SoR2's gameplay is playable and there are many other elements like the areas, music etc that tip the scales in it's favor.

Luckily we have SoRR as a way to combine the best of each game together into what is undoubtedly the most enjoyable game of all of them.

I'm actually currently building a Raspberry Pi 3 to play the game on that I can take places to play with others because Couch Coop is definitely a great part of each game.

Still this, Only thing SoR2 usually gets criticized for is a few subjective issues with the game play but despite this when you look at the entire package there's a reason 2 is regarded as the best. Bare in mind over time SoR1 has become my favorite game in the series despite it's game play not aging well for the very same reason SoR2 is the most memorable of the 3. That being said, 3 bores me til this day ESPECIALLY after having played SoRR. There's no doubt 3 had it's vast improvements in the game play, it's essentially SoR1 and SoR2 merged into one. The problem is everything else falls short,

As far as gameplay goes.
Enemies aren't as annoying but they also suck and become uninteresting going towards stage 3 or 4, likely due to the lack of proper elevation in introduction or interesting enemy combinations. Attacks are faster but that damage nerf is horrendous and it shows when you're fighting goons that have more life than needed. Putting even more salt on the wound, attacks don't feel as meaty as they do in 2, maybe it's the sound effect, maybe it's the damage nerf or maybe the enemies recover too fast at times from the attack but when you hit enemies in 2, you feel it and attacks feel satisfactory. This something 3 lacks heavily. You can't hit enemies offscreen which is not only annoying but also very detrimental, why do this? For as much as 3 adds and fix they turn around and screw up things unnecessarily. No Adam, No Max, a horribly missed opportunity and Zan as cool as cyborg is doesn't make up for this.

The atmosphere
I won't bother going into the OST, Remake has shown the potential of 3's tracks fortunately but that doesn't change that it was originally ear grating. Stages are hit or miss in 3, on one hand I appreciate seeing new places as opposed to the repeated level types in 2 but on the other hand the levels don't stand out as much and can feel a little bland at times. 3 had a chance to revisit the same down to earth cop movie style of SoR1 with newer environments and it sort of missed the mark and the tunes left a ton to be desired, nowhere near as memorable as it's prequels.

Again for what SoR2 does miss or leave more to be desire it makes for everywhere else, the same simply can't be said for the other 2 games. While SoR1 is understandable giving it's the start of the franchize and did well for what it offered, 3 has less of an excuse. It's almost on par with 2 because of what it adds and fixes but it's flaws really drag it down in comparison.

Don Vecta wrote:I still have a super soft spot for SOR1 which, despite the early build and the lack of things it had compared with its competitor Final Fight, I think it's a lot more immersive and with really amazing features that weren't touched in the further games anymore.
I guess the reason SOR3 gets bashed badly was due of the horrible American port of BKIII (the ridiculous censorship, the WTF storyline and the excessively dragging Mania mode)
I see still few good decent things from SOR3... for instance the Very Hard mode I believe it's the real Mania (as in balanced difficulty and not just boring super long health bars).

Which features of SoR1? I see that 3 brought back a bunch of stuff from that game like multiple endings, grab escape throws and team attacks, an elevator scene that's pretty much like the one from the first game with no wall, and level hazards such as pits. A few things I can think of are turn punching (though this is a bug), the cop car, and aesthetics (music and graphics).
There is no Mania mode in either game, unless you're just calling it that because the localized version is harder than the Japanese version so it feels that way, in which case I can see what you're saying.
SoR3 was edited to actually fix some bugs from the Japanese version and improve the experience in some ways. The localized version is more challenging, Roo and Skate were given a few improvements (Skate's running attack hits first frame like in SoR2 and Roo has a better jump and jab), and the special attack and roll where buffed. BKIII can seem too easy for some people, although it's probably better to play casually. I personally don't care about the censorship that much and the new player colors aren't bad (except maybe Axel and Adam having matching colors, but Adam's not even playable and appears late in the game), though they had to remove a character (Ash) which is a shame. Plus, the censorship and character colors shouldn't really subtract from the game that much.
Perhaps the story seems wacky, but it's still more complex than the other two games' (SoR2 was basically Final Fight with the kidnapping, inclusion of a wrestler, Axel's shirt sleeves like Cody's, the fighting system, and the city might have been called Metro City, but I don't remember too well). I've heard people say story isn't even a big part of games like these anyway.
Localized or not, I feel better knowing we have different versions of the game so that people can pick from multiple ways of playing this great game.

Mr. Din wrote:Only thing SoR2 usually gets criticized for is a few subjective issues with the game play but despite this when you look at the entire package there's a reason 2 is regarded as the best. There's no doubt 3 had it's vast improvements in the game play, it's essentially SoR1 and SoR2 merged into one. The problem is everything else falls short.
No Adam, No Max, a horribly missed opportunity and Zan as cool as cyborg is doesn't make up for this.
Putting even more salt on the wound, attacks don't feel as meaty as they do in 2, maybe it's the sound effect, maybe it's the damage nerf or maybe the enemies recover too fast at times from the attack but when you hit enemies in 2, you feel it and attacks feel satisfactory. This something 3 lacks heavily.
Stages are hit or miss in 3, on one hand I appreciate seeing new places as opposed to the repeated level types in 2 but on the other hand the levels don't stand out as much and can feel a little bland at times. 3 had a chance to revisit the same down to earth cop movie style of SoR1 with newer environments and it sort of missed the mark and the tunes left a ton to be desired, nowhere near as memorable as it's prequels.

Even then, 3 does much more than the other two games. 3 feels like a better, more dynamic and expansive version of 2. There are more moves that are really useful in-game like weapon specials and blitzes and upgraded blitz attacks for the four main heroes. Each level has something special to it that makes it unique. 3 has awesome parts like a bulldozer chase scene and a freecam level with several rooms. 2 is made mostly of plain levels, which seems more repetitive to me. I also prefer that 3 is trying to do something different instead of rehashing the same style and aesthetics from the prequels. We already have the complaint from people about SoR3 playing like SoR2 (it even uses the same engine, but for a Genesis game I can see why).
I would much rather have fluid controls and faster attacks than have slow attacks that I can't even connect at times because of the collision system used in 2.
As for the omission of playable Adam, Ayano Koshiro said herself that Adam didn't really feel special and Axel pretty much takes his place being the power character, especially with that black and yellow outfit. As for Max, it is a shame to not play as him, but Ash is also a hulking character who runs fast too. He just might not seem as cool or he has a limited but high-damage moveset. True you can't play as him in the localized version by normal means, but you can use a Game-Genie/Pro Action Replay code or hack him into the game since his data was left in. We have hacks out there with all seven characters available from the start for both versions (unlockable characters being another thing the prequels don't have). Even without Ash, Zan is probably one of the best characters in the game considering some of the stuff he can do.
Perhaps 3 is still flawed and so are all of the games if you think about it, but it has more to it than the other games and feels like a way better version of 2.

SoulFireBlaze wrote:Even then, 3 does much more than the other two games. 3 feels like a better, more dynamic and expansive version of 2. There are more moves that are really useful in-game like weapon specials and blitzes and upgraded blitz attacks for the four main heroes. Each level has something special to it that makes it unique. 3 has awesome parts like a bulldozer chase scene and a freecam level with several rooms. 2 is made mostly of plain levels, which seems more repetitive to me. I also prefer that 3 is trying to do something different instead of rehashing the same style and aesthetics from the prequels. We already have the complaint from people about SoR3 playing like SoR2 (it even uses the same engine, but for a Genesis game I can see why).
I would much rather have fluid controls and faster attacks than have slow attacks that I can't even connect at times because of the collision system used in 2.
As for the omission of playable Adam, Ayano Koshiro said herself that Adam didn't really feel special and Axel pretty much takes his place being the power character, especially with that black and yellow outfit. As for Max, it is a shame to not play as him, but Ash is also a hulking character who runs fast too. He just might not seem as cool or he has a limited but high-damage moveset. True you can't play as him in the localized version by normal means, but you can use a Game-Genie/Pro Action Replay code or hack him into the game since his data was left in. We have hacks out there with all seven characters available from the start for both versions (unlockable characters being another thing the prequels don't have). Even without Ash, Zan is probably one of the best characters in the game considering some of the stuff he can do.
Perhaps 3 is still flawed and so are all of the games if you think about it, but it has more to it than the other games and feels like a way better version of 2.

Everything you mentioned is related to game play and even to a point is still subjective. The question being asked is why SoR2 is considered the best game, as I said the answer is pretty simple, the game offers the most as a complete package. You say SoR2 is slow and clunky, really to be honest I can't even agree there considering various beat em ups have gone with out running, rolling etc that 3 introduced and still managed to be very fun games, SoR2 included but that's just it. These games are FUN, every complaint you've raised about 2 is either subjective on the player (I don't have problems landing hits) or something that 3 would obviously HAVE to improve on to be a worthwhile sequel.

3 simply just wasn't fun after a good while whether it be that BK3 was too piss easy, SoR3 was too ridiculously cheap or simply the fact that levels drag on, themes range from boring to ear piercing and despite having a large range of moves why use them when the damage is so badly nerfed that you're better off using cheap tricks to reduce the ridiculous amount of health these enemies have? I don't hate 3 but regardless of how many things it added, obviously something wasn't hitting the right notes for players with either version of the game. As I said once SoRR came around it clearly felt like a superior version of 3, Most of my complaints of 3 were answered ironically enough by being able to use the SoR2 version of said characters with the ability to run, all except Blaze of course whom I still think benefited the most from 3's changes.

There's something about 2 that brings me back, hell even 1 I can enjoy a bit apart from it's dated game play. That's why I once again say it's about the entire package, 3's improvements simply do no make up for it's glaring flaws, it fixed some things but there's fatal mistakes within even the game play let alone everything else that kept it from aging well. We can't just look at what a game adds to game play and judge it on that alone, Golden Axe III, Double Dragon 3 etc etc are another example of games that added, refined and changed things over it's predecessors but that didn't make them better games or as memorable.

For me it would be like this:

Streets of rage 1: it seems to me that the best sensation gives to those pre-90 airs.
Their enemies and scenarios are more of the style of fighting films of the time.
(The warriors)

Streets of rage 2: the most balanced in music, gameplay, and scenarios.
it may lack some speed in his gameplay.

Streets of rage 3: has the best gameplay, with a very complete moveset, but the music and the stages were not the best chosen.
Apart from mixing robots I did not like it that much, and I broke a lot of aesthetics.


Would put the streets of rage 2 better, followed by 1 and then 3 (which saves him to have the best gameplay)

Although there are a few things i am not particularly fond of in SoR2 that i like better in 1 and even 3, it just feels to best to me. Not exactly the easiest thing to describe, but aside from a few odd things, it feels 'just right' to me. It feels the most balanced, it has the best pacing, the damage system feels smooth and reasonable, the graphics are nice, the music is superb, and the overall presentation is pretty damn good for a genesis game from 1992.

The things i don't like? Well, the lack of ability to run outside of Skate, for one thing, that's a big one. Another would be the lack of team throwing, the lack of roll dodging, and the fact that you drop weapons when you go to grab someone. If they would have included those, the game would have been nearly perfect.

BK3 made all the right improvements, but the issue with it is just the fact that the game's engine was clunky. Fast, yes, but the pacing was really off, the enemy placement is boring and suspect, the damage system is just atrocious, making the game feel monotonous, the music ranges from generic to the equivalent of getting raped in the ear by a rhinoceros (a couple good tunes, though), the graphics strive to be an improvement, but really it just makes the game look a little too rough for my liking (it looks like they tried to merge SoR2 style with something like shinobi 3 or eternal champions), while the character animations generally do look pretty smooth, some of them, namely the fighting stances, look really bizarre (Axel looks drunk, Skate looks crippled, and Blaze looks like she has to pee), the level design is boring, dull, and grey or muddy green most of the time, and the presentation in general, namely the sound effects, just feels empty, weak, and uninspired. The game also starts to suck after stage 3. So many times i get to stage 4 and just end up wanting to turn it off. SoR2 doesn't have that. Too many times, i play SoR2 and want to keep going.

I could say much more, but this post would go on forever, if i did, so i will stop there. The point is, the second game, although the third has most of the correct improvements, the engine got nerfed to the point that it ends up not really mattering in the end. I don't hate the game, but too many things about it fall short.

As for SoR1? I like it pretty well. Not a whole lot i can say on it, other than i like it but feel SoR2 is a massive improvement. I do like the tone of the game. It's dark like SoR3, but in a more lively way in comparison to SoR3. SoR3 tries too hard to have this sort of grimdark style that just feels cold and empty to me. As for SoR3? As others have said, it's a bad rom hack. End of story.