Don't listen to Ondore's lies! (The Final Fantasy Topic)

For those who played FF8: http://squallsdead.com/

Xenovant wrote:For those who played FF8: http://squallsdead.com/

I played FF8 several years ago, while I was at university, and I liked FF8 and its story (the fact that I was playing alongside the official walkthrough just so I could get 100% completion did not detract from the pleasure of playing for me). And to this theory (which even the writer admitted there's no concrete way to prove whether or not it's really so), I have one response to say: REJECTED!

A couple things to add to why I reject this theory:

1. Two words: Phoenix Down.

2. The question was asked, why would freshly-graduated SeeDs be targeted for interrogation? Well, consider that Seifer is Squall's nemesis AND Edea's knight; he'd likely tell Edea that Squall had information because he was the field leader for that assassination mission.

3. Edea, being who she is from Squall's past (won't spoil it here), would probably have subconscious memories of who he is/was and healed him because of that. And, as has been posited, he could certainly have been healed for the purpose of torturing information out of him; he wouldn't even need to be a SeeD to have any sort of sensitive info about Balamb Garden, just the fact that he's been there for as long as he had been up to that point would be enough (and it was supposed to be a SECRET that Squall and his group were from Balamb Garden before Zell blurted it out in front of the Galbadian president).

4. Quoting the article's conclusion: "I choose to believe that this is how the game was intended to be understood because, to me, the game makes no sense otherwise. Everything that happens to the characters after the first disc is ridiculous. The ending is like recapping the game on acid. There has to be something more to the story than a simple ‘Hero Takes All’ plot." Well, why wouldn't the game make sense if Squall wasn't dead all along? What's wrong with a simple "Hero Takes All" plot? (Some of us happen to LIKE when the good guys come out on top.) And isn't the game's premise ridiculous already anyway (monsters being junctioned and summoned, sorceresses and soldiers with unusual powers, child soldiers in a mobile base the size of a city)?

5. Who's to say that the Guardian Forces (GFs) that Squall and company had junctioned to themselves didn't somehow play a role in reviving Squall (at least, the ones he had) or make him tough enough to survive being impaled and falling such a great height?

So, again, to quote: "In any case, I think Squall's Dead is an interesting theory, worth considering at least, and I hope you think so too." Well, sorry, but NO. NO, I DO NOT SEE IT AS WORTH CONSIDERING. I REJECT IT TOTALLY.

he could certainly have been healed for the purpose of torturing information out of him

Who's to say that the Guardian Forces (GFs) that Squall and company had junctioned to themselves didn't somehow play a role in reviving Squall (at least, the ones he had) or make him tough enough to survive being impaled and falling such a great height?

Theories vs. theories

1. Two words: Phoenix Down.

The PD are for the game part, not the story. Think for example in Aerith in FF7, Cid in FF6 (if he dies), etc. If every time someone dies in a FF they could use a phoenix down, nobody would die. It would be a little like Dragon Ball: this character died? who cares, they can revive him if they want

Of course, I'm NOT saying that you are wrong and this theory is right, it's just "something interesting" to keep in mind. It could be true... or not.

When you lose all your hit points in FF8 your character is Knocked out (KO), not killed, So although the Phoenix Downs give the impression they bring life, technically they don't. (Just from the standpoint of the game's logic)

I think the theory on Squall is interesting but nah, It doesn't sit right for me.

Yeah, you're right, but think about Aerith for example, if a playable character can survive the impact of a meteor, I'm sure she could handle Sephiroth's sword and they could have used a PD

I'm joking, we shouldn't even think about it. Not everything makes sense in videogames and much less if we try to mix the story with the game mechanics

Now seriously, I agree with both of you, it's something interesting to keep in mind but I don't accept it either.

Xenovant wrote:Yeah, you're right, but think about Aerith for example, if a playable character can survive the impact of a meteor, I'm sure she could handle Sephiroth's sword and they could have used a PD

And if Aerith could have been revived via Phoenix Down, then Cloud wouldn't be the emo guy he is in Advent Children. Although in THAT case, the Aerith-Cloud-Tifa love-triangle that exists among certain of the fanbase would never end, I guess. xD

Personally, if I should choose any favorites among the FF franchise, I'd go for 6, 8 and 9 because of their stories and character development (never played 7, but as noted, I have watched Advent Children and I have a fair idea of the back-story). Of course, seeing as I try not to play videogames where magic is the central theme anymore, maybe that's a moot point...

My 3 favorites would be ff6, 7 and 4 in that order. I like ff9... but it's too different. When I played it I felt like if I were playing a game based in a fairy tale instead of a FF. About ff8... I don't like it at all, the game is too realistic for my taste, the story is too simple, the cards game is a waste of time, there is almost no story behind the characters... and it got even worse when I read somewhere that squaresoft didn't finish Xenogears like they should because of this game >_<'

Xenovant wrote:My 3 favorites would be ff6, 7 and 4 in that order. I like ff9... but it's too different. When I played it I felt like if I were playing a game based in a fairy tale instead of a FF. About ff8... I don't like it at all, the game is too realistic for my taste, the story is too simple, the cards game is a waste of time, there is almost no story behind the characters... and it got even worse when I read somewhere that squaresoft didn't finish Xenogears like they should because of this game >_<'

FF9 feels to me the way a classic FF game would feel... fantasy, after all. Even though I never got to properly finish it because my memory card got wiped. T_T FF8 as a standalone game is quite fine to me...though I wonder how it would be if Squaresoft were to ever create an actual RPG based on real life (i.e. no magic, no outlandish/improbable weapons or vehicles, and there's plenty of historical stories they could draw inspiration from for a plot).

I somewhat disagree about there being almost no story behind the FF8 characters. Almost all the main cast have a shared back-story with regards to the orphanage...Seifer used to be the local bully, Zell grew up with loving adopted parents and has knowledge of military stuff, Irvine had/has a crush on Selphie that is eventually reciprocated, Rinoa has been at odds with her father's regime, Squall has abandonment issues with what happened with Elle (can't remember if that's her correct name, sorry)...I think perhaps Quistis would be the flattest of all the characters, admittedly. Although, since they were pairing up most of the main characters, when I first played through I thought maybe they'd pull a surprise on me and have Quistis pair up with Zell so as to "pair the spares"...but I guess not. ^^

Hmm...Xenogears...I don't think I ever really liked that game. The gameplay was too divergent between the human characters and the mechas, and I don't think I like how the story played out (or would have played out; again, another game I never got to finish).

Xenovant wrote:and it got even worse when I read somewhere that squaresoft didn't finish Xenogears like they should because of this game >_<'

As a huge Xenogears fan (as you know  ), this rumor wasn't true at all. It was started by rabid Xenogears fanboys who were really pissed that their game was rushed and released incomplete. They found excuses to blame the incompletion on and considering how FF is Square's flagship title, they blamed both FF8 and FF7 for stealing funding from Xenogears and other small projects to use on those games.

In the Project Works book, Xenogears creator Takahashi did mention that the game was rushed (and this is evidenced by the entire second disc) and had an issue with running out of budget. But there was no proof that the budget was cut short for FF8 or FF7.



As for Final Fantasy since we are talking about favorites. My preference goes (main series wise) VII > IX > IV > XII > VI > I > V > X > VIII > III > XIII > II > XI > XIV (MMOs are by default, crap. So XI and XIV go at the very end)  

7, 9, and 4 are by far and away my favorites of the series and are among some of my favorite games of all time.

FFVII was the first one I've played, so I got some nostalgia backing it up. But even when I do replays of it, there is something about it that just feels different from any other game that I've played. Every time I play it, I just find myself stuck on my TV playing the game for 8 hours straight a day. No matter how many times I replay it (and I did just fairly recently) it never gets old to me and always feels fresh. 

FFIX was the one that took me awhile to get into. When I first saw pics of it as a kid, I hated it and didn't want to play it because of its fairy tale look. But I eventually got a look at it when one of my friends rented it and thought it was awesome. As soon as I got my hands on the game, I loved it even more. When I did finally finish the game, I felt like I experienced something similar to what I felt with FFVII. I still liked VII better, but this game was wonderful and has probably my favorite villain in the series (just get past his really gay look).

FFIV, just like FFIX, was another one that took me awhile to get into. I didn't like it much at first because the beginning was really slow, so I never played much after that. But I gave it another chance and after getting past the beginning, I was hooked until the end. The story was really similar to FFIX's (and thats not a bad thing) so I was in for a ride. It wasn't quite the experience that FFVII and IX were to me, but I still got a fun ride out of it.

I won't delve too much into the other ones since I have written a huge wall of text already. But a few snipbits:

FFXII: Most underrated game I've ever played in my life.

FFVI: A really fun game and probably the most original game in the series I've played. I don't think its no where near as godly as its internet fanbase makes it out to be, but it was still a fun game overall.

FFI: The NES version hasn't aged too well, but as the first in the series it was still fun to play. I love the class system the game introduces and gives the game high replayability value.

FFV: Another underrated game and is one instance where a translation can ruin a game. I love how the game doesn't take itself seriously and is a parody of the RPG genre in general (lost in the first translations of the game) and has a really good job system.

FFX: This is to me when the series drops in quality. Before my recent playthrough of it not too long ago, this was my least favorite game in the series. But after playing it again, I liked it a lot better than I initially did, but I still felt there were some significant flaws with it. Overall, I felt that it was just OK.

FFVIII: Going to get some hate from Benny here.  But I could never get into the story nor the characters besides Squall (that Orphanage scene was just laughable. Probably the worst thing in the series besides the laughing scene in FFX). I did like the idea of the junction system however, but I felt it was poorly executed and ended up being a chore to draw magic from enemies and was annoying how you basically had to run from every battle whenever you weren't looking for magic to steal from enemies.

FFIII: This game was the definition of boredom. The atmosphere, music, and gameplay overall was just forgettable.

XIII: I could never finish this shit. Stripped anything JRPG from it and made it a really shitty arcade rpg with a forgettable story, uninteresting atmosphere, and the characters were annoying (Hope is the worst character in any FF game I've ever seen. This includes Tidus and Yuna). After getting through chapter 8 or so, I told myself for the first time "This isn't a Final Fantasy game" and put it aside.

II: Worst. Stat Building System. Ever. Damn shame too, because from what I read of the story, it sounded very promising and rather dark for a game that came out in 1988. I heard current re-releases fixes the NES version's broken ass gameplay though, so I might have to check those versions out.

XI: It's an MMORPG. MMORPGs are crap. So therefore, this goes right to the bottom. An online FF game sounds like an interesting idea, but make it its own side game. It really bothered me that they pushed this as a main game and then excluded many people from ever playing it. It's like making Streets of Rage 4, but instead of having beat-em-up gameplay, you use a stealth system similar to Metal Gear Solid and actually run away from the enemies.

XIV: Ditto. Except this is lower than XI just because of how awful the reviews and general consensus of the game is around the world. I heard the new version of the game is also crap too.

So in conclusion. FFIV-IX was the golden era of the series for me. I also got to mention FF Tactics. That was a wonderful game as well and in the same category as FFVII, IX, and IV for me.

(Sorry for the long post)  

As a huge Xenogears fan (as you know  ), this rumor wasn't true at all. It was started by rabid Xenogears fanboys who were really pissed that their game was rushed and released incomplete. They found excuses to blame the incompletion on and considering how FF is Square's flagship title, they blamed both FF8 and FF7 for stealing funding from Xenogears and other small projects to use on those games.

In the Project Works book, Xenogears creator Takahashi did mention that the game was rushed (and this is evidenced by the entire second disc) and had an issue with running out of budget. But there was no proof that the budget was cut short for FF8 or FF7.

I still have the Perfect Works in my hard disk, the original japanese version and a translated one. There, Takahashi says nothing about money and that isn't the story I read years ago

Spoiler:

The story I read says that Squaresoft wanted more people for FF8 for finishing it in time and didn't care about Xenogears, so they transfered a lot of people from the xenogears staff to ff8. It isn't that they were running out of money, it's just that they lacked the people for making it possible

Like I said, the story keeps changing over the years. It became FF8's fault, then it became FF7's fault all of a sudden. Nothing was ever officially confirmed besides the fact that the game was rushed.

True, there are only rumors

There is something official though: the xenosaga games are a piece of sh*t, so I can confirm that square didn't give a fuck about xenogears  



 

Xenovant wrote:True, there are only rumors

There is something official though: the xenosaga games are a piece of sh*t, so I can confirm that square didn't give a fuck about xenogears  



 

   

That I can agree with. Xenosaga was awful (with the exception of Albedo from the first game. He got too preachy and got stale as the series went on though). I could never finish Xenosaga Ep. II because of its nonsensical battle system. The second worst battle system I have ever seen in any RPG ever (second only to FFII  )

One thing I did hear though is that at one time after Xenogears was shortly released, Takahashi or his wife (one of the two) started planning development one of the prequels (which became Xenosaga later). But due to the initial low sales of Xenogears, Sakaguchi threw the banhammer down and said "no more Xenogears." and then everyone left to go make it at Namco.

Never have played Xenoblade though, even though I got a copy of it (mainly due to knowing how rare Xeno games get).

I can believe that sales for Xenogears were low...based on how the story turned out (yeah, I spoiled it for myself since I never got to finish it first-hand), it was bound to flop anyway.  

Shadow Fist King wrote:I can believe that sales for Xenogears were low...based on how the story turned out (yeah, I spoiled it for myself since I never got to finish it first-hand), it was bound to flop anyway.  

....or maybe it was because there was absolutely no marketing toward the game whatsoever.

The story wasn't a reason why it flopped. Actually, it's the main reason why it has such a strong cult following today and the reason why it ends up in a lot of Best Games of All Time lists and ends up in discussions with games like Planescape, Legacy of Kain, Silent Hill 2, etc. being considered to have the best story of all time in a video game.

Saven wrote:
FFVIII: Going to get some hate from Benny here.

Prepare your anus!

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Everyone's entitled to their opinion ..VIII was the first i played so it's always going to be special to me.

But yeah, games are different for everybody. Some people just don't understand that. I agree with you saying XII was underrated...I really love that game. It was one of those that showed just what the PS2 was capable of...and the game was awesome too.

Benny26 wrote:VIII was the first i played so it's always going to be special to me.

VI was my first FF experience, and I played it on the ZSNES emulator. With cheats. Yeah, prepare to stone me for not playing it "right." I did play it without cheats a few years afterward but didn't finish it that time. Still, either way, a great RPG experience for me.

Out of all those I listed as favorites, even though I never finished it, IX would be mine, because I like how you can essentially customize the characters' weapons (I'm thinking of Zidane's twin knives being customizable into a swallow-like weapon a la Chrono Cross).

My first FF was ff7, I loved the summons when I saw them and I bought the psx only for playing this game (at the beginning). I played my favourite one (ff6) in the second place. I played it in the psx port where you are more loading than playing, and my cd wasn't recorded properly so it crashed a lot    But I liked it a lot and it gave me enough patience for finishing it and even becoming my favourite FF. I played ff8, 9, tactics, 5, 4, etc. and even that shit called "final fantasy mystic quest" (that isn't even a FF) looking for a better FF but no one could surpass the great six

Funny enough, until I learned otherwise, I'd always used to believe Mystic Quest was THE first FF game. Looking back now, they could have at least handled the dialogue a bit better...but I enjoyed the game nonetheless. 

Returning a bit to the FF discussion (that oddly enough I missed), gotta say my favorite main FF's are VI, VII, IX, IV, XII. Tactics has to be my all time favorite Final Fantasy game, though. I could never feel FFVIII, neither X, X-2 (Ewww! Though I like the song Real Emotion ), and I gave up the series after XII (which I still liked it mostly due of Balthier, the coolest mofo in the FF universe) so XIII is not even worth mentioning.

Don Vecta wrote:Returning a bit to the FF discussion (that oddly enough I missed), gotta say  my favorite main FF's are VI, VII, IX, IV, XII. Tactics has to be my all time favorite Final Fantasy game, though. I could never feel FFVIII, neither X, X-2 (Ewww! Though I like the song Real Emotion ), and I gave up the series after XII (which I still liked it mostly due of Balthier, the coolest mofo in the FF universe) so XIII is not even worth mentioning.

I played and finished the main story for Tactics Advance...didn't get 100% completion, though, and I was using a GBA emulator. No cheats, though. Unless you consider auto-load and auto-save as cheats.

Since this is now its own topic, there is some new FF-related news not too long ago.


Square Enix forms a Final Fantasy committee to ensure series quality

Via Nova Crystallis:

In an effort to bolster the quality of the Final Fantasy series going forward, Square Enix has deemed it necessary to bring together some of the franchise’s top creators in what they’re calling the “Final Fantasy Committee.”

According to a report by FF-Reunion, the committee will be headed by Yoshinori Kitase, Hajime Tabata, Naoki Yoshida and Motomu Toriyama. Details remain sparse, but their meetings will take place to ensure the quality of the FF series going forward. Long time series character designer and now director of Final Fantasy XV Tetsuya Nomura, however, appears to be separate from this initiative as his priorities lie within another timeline.

In an effort to bolster the quality of the Final Fantasy series going forward.....the committee will be headed by Yoshinori Kitase, Hajime Tabata, Naoki Yoshida and Motomu Toriyama.

Yoshinori Kitase, Motomu Toriyama

Oh god, Square Enix doesn't know what the fuck they're doing nowadays do they? Kitase has seriously lost his touch, and Toriyama is one of the worst VG directors I have ever seen (genius behind FFX, destroying Parasite Eve, and the FFXIII saga).

I can't wait to see what decisions will be made from this "creative" committee from here on out.



Yosuke Matsuda: Gentlemen, our Final Fantasy brand has been tarnished. In order to protect our brand I've decided to institute a Quality committee to oversee the brand.

Ito: Yay!

Matsuda: And it will be largely staffed by the people that tarnished the brand.

Toriyama: Guys, our ultimate job is to put Lightning in EVERYTHING! Let's make a new game called Dirge of Cerberus Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Revenge of Lightning Returns: The After Years Crisis Core Final Fantasy XIII.

Yoshida: Guys, how can we be more focused on how the Final Fantasy franchise will grow on mobile phones.

Ito: How about focusing on FFXV and future sequels on home consoles?  FFXV is nearing 10 years since its announcement.

Kitase: Fuck you Ito! You aren't even on this console. You would make too much sense!

This is the current state of the Final Fantasy franchise:


(Seriously, what the hell happened to Ito? Is he just a janitor at Square Enix now?)

Final fantasy has really lost it way since FFX-2, and that one is of an required taste I do not like it at all, it is a turd inside a disk. 7 was the first one I played and remains my fave, the characters, the music love Tifa's theme and Aries theme and one winged Angel. To the awesome summons pretty customizable battle system and twisting storyline this is also my fave game ever.

The rest if I was to put in some order would be, 8,6,9,10,5,1,4,3,2,12, 10-2 and 13 does not not exist for me what the fuck were they thinking when they made those seriously everything can go wrong did go wrong with that one.

I hoping in some way square-Enix do remake 7 but thinking how they are now as a company it should be left alone they will screw up royal.