Re: SoR Ultimate 1.1 - Death Version (DV.2)

**Don Vecta** Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:15 pm

CajNatalie wrote:Well this was interesting to investigate.
Someone who makes dupe accounts to self-praise their own mod, while all the non-dupes are like "O.o".

If it was so difficult to write a script in Italian, I'm wondering how you're able to keep typing so much here in fairly clear English, also with the other accounts also very easy to understand.

117 extra lives. Man the one time I remember dumping as many lives as I could to 'balance' was in... oh yeah, a JOKE MOD.
A mod designed to insult mods that require a huge amount of lives to make it through the horribly structured and populated hordes.
...the best part is the most lives to balance my joke was 50. Yet you think more than twice that many is acceptable.

Wow.

You put a lot of effort and love into something that only you can appreciate, but are ignorant of the views of others on it; a pretty nice example of good ol' Dunning Kruger.
There's nothing wrong with loving something nobody else loves, while there is plenty wrong with being in denial and using false testimony to create the illusion of other people than you liking it at all in the attempt to force the idea that it even has a chance to withstand criticism.
Think about what you're doing wrong. You won't see it, of course, otherwise it wouldn't be Dunning Kruger, but someone's gotta give you the chance.

SoR Ultimate 1.1 - Death Version (DV.2) - Page 3 Joker_clap

SoR Ultimate 1.1 - Death Version (DV.2) - Page 3 Jokermontagecell1

Ducobson Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:30 am

CajNatalie wrote:Well this was interesting to investigate.
Someone who makes dupe accounts to self-praise their own mod, while all the non-dupes are like "O.o".

If it was so difficult to write a script in Italian, I'm wondering how you're able to keep typing so much here in fairly clear English, also with the other accounts also very easy to understand.

117 extra lives. Man the one time I remember dumping as many lives as I could to 'balance' was in... oh yeah, a JOKE MOD.
A mod designed to insult mods that require a huge amount of lives to make it through the horribly structured and populated hordes.
...the best part is the most lives to balance my joke was 50. Yet you think more than twice that many is acceptable.

Wow.

You put a lot of effort and love into something that only you can appreciate, but are ignorant of the views of others on it; a pretty nice example of good ol' Dunning Kruger.
There's nothing wrong with loving something nobody else loves, while there is plenty wrong with being in denial and using false testimony to create the illusion of other people than you liking it at all in the attempt to force the idea that it even has a chance to withstand criticism.
Think about what you're doing wrong. You won't see it, of course, otherwise it wouldn't be Dunning Kruger, but someone's gotta give you the chance.

Wrong, there are not 117 extra lives. Very Happy

1 player mode, level Mania: 85 lives from the game + 36 lives from the tournament = 121 extra lives in total.
2 player mode, level Mania: 116 lives from the game + 36 lives from the tournament = 152 extra lives in total.

This mod is designed to be one of the toughest around, I added a large number of extra lives but it is said that they go all used.
In the lower levels of difficulty you can end the game safely using only a small part, playing level Mania obviously be better to take them all because it is very difficult to accomplish.

However, if I could I finish it without using cheats, you can do it too! Wink

P.S. There is not only this forum, there are other places where I shared the game.
I also received positive reviews, then if you do not like patience, I'll sleep too!

Bye Bye.

Guest Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:50 pm

Okay this guy is either a huge troll or one of the stupidest people on the planet, no reason to play nice anymore. He's had his chance to wake up.

"No, I didn't need only 117, I needed 152 to make this piece of shit even playable." XD

Yes, "other places", and your dupes said "they go all used". Sure sure, very positive.
Yeah if you need to use over a hundred freaking lives in a mod you have a big problem - it's worthless unbalanced garbage. This is not a good thing.

**Don Vecta** Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:49 pm

Ducobson wrote:There is not only this forum, there are other places where I shared the game.

I'm rather curious in which other places SORmaker mods have exposure. Do you mind sharing us those sites? Probably we also can expose our mods, too. Smile

BigDarsh Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:48 pm

Homer Simpson - I need something because... I have to drive all the night !!!!
Drugstore owner - I think I might have what you need...

Few hours later, Homer is starting to fall asleep while driving is truck. Bart manage to wake him up in order to avoid an accident.

Bart Smpson - Homer, you have to sleep, stop driving, you're gonna kill us !!
Homer Simpson - Don't worry son, I think I might have just what I need !

Homer takes a little bottle filled with yellow pills and swallow them all.

Bart Simpson - Dad are you crazy ? It's written on the bottle that you can't take more than one pill a day !!
Homer Simpson - No problemo ! Let's offset this with sleeping pills melt with some coffee and everything will be fine !!

I highly suggest to watch the whole episode to see what happens... Or you can play this mod because it revolves around the same concept.

This mod is designed to be one of the toughest around, I added a large number of extra lives but it is said that they go all used.

Ducobson Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:28 pm

Wow Natalie, that harsh language for a girl. Wink

This is your point of view, my other hand is different.
The extra lives there, it is possible to insert them, why not do it?
If the mod you can finish it, it means that it is balanced extra lives or not.

Playing you will notice that the difficulty is growing, it start soft and then increased to the final level where it is very difficult.
Probably too much, ok. But there are extra lives.
In this way just playing from the beginning you will have enough lives to be able to finish the game, especially at Mania.

Version 5.1 has complicated things a bit, with the 5.0a version of the game was easier and had created an EX version with many extra lives on less, but I had to remove it.

P.S. I had responded to Vince on his point of view with extreme calm and clarity.
Why did I just write something, here becomes a hell?
We always love each other, sooner or later! Very Happy

BigDarsh Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:37 pm

I'm not sure of the diagnostic but I think the problem is this : "no sense".

To enjoy something, it has to be fun, or interesting. The main problem of your mod, is not the difficulty itself, since you "balanced it out" with "tons of extra life". Like puting tons of sugar to make up for the acid in your drink. But trust me, Cocke (the famous drink) is neither tasty nor healty, it's a piece of acid that rape stomach and the sugar flavor is just here to hide the pain.

I don't care that people like Cocke or not, and I don't care people like your mod or not. Your mod has no sense, and despite I can beat it, I don't have fun by beating it since it is unrewarding. The fights are piece of trash with no sense, and when I lose a life I'm not "oh my god I lose a life" I'm more "I just don't care, like the game designer of this mod".

To make it short : giving 100 extra lifes is like devaluating the money and turns a reward into a turd.

Guest Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:02 pm

Ducobson wrote:Wow Natalie, that harsh language for a girl.

I suppose it's fine for blokes to be vulgar, but not girls, in some strange world that doesn't exist...

Ducobson wrote:This is your point of view, my other hand is different.
The extra lives there, it is possible to insert them, why not do it?
If the mod you can finish it, it means that it is balanced extra lives or not.

Darsh covers what you're doing wrong very well.
Also continuing on with you clearly being incapable of seeing your own stupidity, I can say my shit doesn't stink, because it's just my view. Most people would disagree. I'm aware of this so I can adjust my view to understand that my shit probably stinks. You should similarly see that your mod is probably trash.

Ducobson wrote:Playing you will notice that the difficulty is growing, it start soft and then increased to the final level where it is very difficult.
Probably too much, ok. But there are extra lives.

Wow I dumped all this salt into the soup, probably too much, but there are 152 teaspoons of sugar in there, so it's balanced.

Ducobson wrote:We always love each other, sooner or later!

FYI I gave you a chance to disprove my first impressions and demonstrate basic level intelligence, and you failed, so no, you're just an idiot in my eyes and nobody will love you. Sorry to inform you.

Ducobson Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:20 am

I get the feeling that if I were using the language that you use, I'd probably already been banned from the forum.
Anyway I do not care anything about the chance that you give me, the intelligence that you boast so much about having not're demonstrating with your answers, too bad.
The only sensible comment when I read only by Vince, the rest is just garbage to me.
Spoken only accounts, extra lives and little else.

Now I can do it a serious comment. How to post initial premise, this is a basic model, I did not use maps from other games, I did not use other objects except those that the editor do sormaker provides, I have not included animations, etc ...
In short, this is not a mod developed like many others in this forum.
For the rest, the same answers that I gave Vince, is useless for me to say it again.
You like it and want to play? Fine.
You do not like and do not want to play? Okay.

I accept all criticism as long as they are constructive, the rest does not interest me.

Guest Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:48 am

"I accept all criticism except negative criticism."

BigDarsh Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:26 pm

I reviewed a tons of mod since SoRRv5 exist and I studied a lot of beat em up and fighting games in my life. I'm "the kind of guy" who always try to be constructive and always try to understand what a game designer do when he make a beat em up or a fighting game. I always try to high light the best part of a work because I have a tons of respect for beat em up makers and fighting game makers.

And now you say to CajNatalie (which is one of the best mod maker around here) that she's not constructive in her commentary and you blame me for not being constructive.

You know what ? I don't like books about game design that much, I prefer to understand game designers by playing and studying. But after playing your mods, and tried really hard to understand "what you are trying to make me live by making this masterpiece", I finally understand why books about game design exist.

They exist because some people might really need it.

This will be my last constructive cristicism. Read that book, and then we talk.
http://www.amazon.fr/Theory-Fun-Game-Design-2ed/dp/1449363210

SoR Ultimate 1.1 - Death Version (DV.2) - Page 3 Gi_review

SoR Ultimate 1.1 - Death Version (DV.2) - Page 3 Gi_review

Ducobson Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:55 pm

For me constructive criticism is argued in detail, point by point, there are things you can discuss without using offensive words.
Anyway I do not care to feed other discussions with the Empress Natalie and her faithful followers, I also respect very much for his work on SorMaker.
This mod will not have further updates / developments (do not cry for this) and for this reason I can even finish it here.
Maybe in the future I'll be back with another masterpiece Darsh, unfortunately for now you'll have to settle for this.

Bye.

Guest Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:02 pm

When someone is an idiot, it's not offensive to say that they are an idiot because it's true.
When a mod is trash, it's not offensive to say it is trash, because it's true.

My SoR for V5 is trash, and I openly say this, as it was a project while learning the ropes. Because of this I'm making it again in non-trash form. You see, it's shit and it's true, so I am not insulting myself or my own work.

If you cannot take negative criticism without dismissing it just because you dislike some of the words, it is you who is most immature. Especially when resorting to a petty gender mis-assignment insult - now that's immature; it actually is an insult when you were already under the impression of me being a woman.

**Don Vecta** Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:14 pm

Ducobson, not sure if you either missed my message or just plain ignored it for whatever reason, so, just to make sure either you're avoiding to answer me honestly or something, here I go again:

I'm rather curious in which other places SORmaker mods have exposure. Do you mind sharing us those sites? Probably we also can expose our mods, too.

So now, I guess it is clear I'm making a direct inquiry. I want to know other sites where SORmaker mods are being exposed, which means there's SORmaker players out there.

Ducobson Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:19 pm

As you wish, so you go straight to your way so there is little to do.
The terms "junk" or "trash" are vague and offensive, behind every mod there is always someone who has spent time to make it happen.
You may not like, okay ... but there are several ways to tell Vince and he did so in an exemplary manner.
Your continue giving idiot could also be annoying, if you have something to tell me you can always use the PM without falling with the language.

Guest Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:23 pm

Don Vecta wrote:Ducobson, not sure if you either missed my message or just plain ignored it for whatever reason, so, just to make sure either you're avoiding to answer me honestly or something, here I go again:

I'm rather curious in which other places SORmaker mods have exposure. Do you mind sharing us those sites? Probably we also can expose our mods, too.

So now, I guess it is clear I'm making a direct inquiry. I want to know other sites where SORmaker mods are being exposed, which means there's SORmaker players out there.

Making sure it's not missed again.

Ducobson Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:36 am

Of course there are other sites, not all in English though.
Do not forget the forum ***.net, there are other sharing sites for torrent files, Youtube channel, social like Facebook, Twitter are powerful tools for propaganda and advertising.

I regret not having answered before, but I wanted to teach a bit of gallantry to your friend Natalie.
Unfortunately I failed. Doubtful

Guest Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:50 am

Was gonna leave it there, but seems there's one thing left to do.

The thing is I speak my mind and say what I mean to say.
I don't use dishonest means such as duplicated accounts to reach my intentions.
I tell the truth, while you lie.

Someone like me has nothing to learn from you, do not act like you have any authority to speak like that.

**Don Vecta** Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:31 am

SOR online might be the only place I know has exposure to SORmaker stuff besides us... and your mod wasn't particularly shiny or relevant as you claim to be.

I don't mind sites in other languages, as long we can have exposure to true SORmaker players, but then again, I just think there's not such places.

And since this thread is derailing horribly, I'm going to lock it. People are still able to download it and try it as I won't remove the links whatsoever, but if they want to leave you any feedback, whether it is positive or negative, they can do it through PM. I'm not up to keep seeing more drama around in the public forums.

*DISCLAIMER: This is mainly to prevent more serious issues arising. This has absolutely nothing to do with my own personal view, which is independent from my mod job*

**Don Vecta** Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:40 am

By polite request of the modder, I'm unlocking this thread, with fair warning to prevent flamewars.

To the modder, to grow thicker skin and accept criticism, even if this is negative. Also, to stop giving false testimony or allegations. In this community, we value honesty in our work and in the end, the truth will always resurface.

To the community, to give a honest but constructive feedback (with honest I don't mean rude, BTW). Be polite and try to give suggestions or ideas for the things that just didn't work.

BigDarsh Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:11 pm

Okay let's try something concrete.

The main idea behind difficulty is this : problem need to be solve. The easier the problem is, the easier the game.

Example : Galsia 2 with 52HP vs the player in a regular collison map (z axis / x axis / y axis).
This situation is fairly easy to overcome for the player who just understand the basic mechanics of the game or the gendra.

Elevate the challenge can be done by various variable such as modifiying the collision map (pits, narrow space, danger zone, wall etc) and bring an higher number of enemy on the map.

The key behind rewarding game challenge is when the player "have an idea" that permit to bypass the difficulty created by the modder.

Example : "hey, if I grab galsia, and then toss him in the pits, I kill him instantly !"
Example : "hey, if I pick the grenade in time, I can toss it to the large group of mook !"
Example : "hey, if I regroup a pack of mook, I can stun lock them and combo them to death !"

Different ideas that different people can have while playing the game.

The modders can give assistance to the player by giving him food to replenish his life meter and extra 1up: I will call them "assist tool". The key behind this feature to be rewarding is this "I deserve them, I've had many great ideas to solve problems (clear fights) and the game designer should reward me for being this good".

If you don't give enough "assist tool" to the player, he may feel frustrated when he will lose his first life. To make it short, it will feel unfair.

If you give too much "assist tools" to the player, he may feel "babysitted" since he can't lose. He is in a win-win situation (the modder give more assist tools than the player has to think/fight to solve problem).

And here is the difficulty scaling. Some people add extra 1up or food pick ups in lower difficulty to help beginner. It works but the "beginer who play easy" might feel "babysitted" and that's why it's not the best solution. The idea behind lower difficulty feels rewarding is to create easier problems (enemy with less life, less numerous, with easier IA etc) more than adding assist tools.

And now is your mod. Basicly, your mod is not difficult. It is the "babysitted edition for hard core gamers" (what the point?). Instead of giving interesting problems to solve, you give more assist tools which make the mod a chore to play since no situation are really mind blowing.

U don't feel the tension and progression. You put the player in a "no win situation" and his only way to beat the game is to pick up assist tool after assist tool. The player will take damage, whatever his cleverness, whatever his skill (nonense, it's the chore of beat em up). It's like being attached on chair with electro-shock. Each hit the player take makes his pain become unbearable and all he can do, is pushing the Button B

button over a shiny pick up to help him to reach the end of the mod.

Your mod has other problems (visually speaking, lack of shiny battle situations for example), but I think we can't talk about this for now since the basic problem of your mod is explained in this in depth constructive criticism.

Ducobson Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:05 am

Thank celestinx returned alive the EX Version that I had cleared with the release of Sor Remake v5.1 because it was considered too difficult.

That's essentially what changes the current Deluxe Version:
-Removed many extra lives than Deluxe Version, in the scenes of the bosses there is only one extra life now.
-You can complete the game only at Mania.
-Removed the last scene of the Deluxe version, the game now ends after the battle against Mr. X on the moon.

Playing with Sor Remake v5.1, EX Version is probably the hardest mod to finish at Mania.

DOWNLOAD
http://www.mediafire.com/download/q2gxwojl8blwxug/Ult1.1EX%2Bpal.zip
OR
https://firedrop.com/a2104e5445c286ee (without palettes)

Ducobson Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:52 am

I want to give an advice, play Ultimate 1.1 EX Version in 1 player mode, with only the infinite ammo cheat active I managed to get to the final fight (at Mania).
In 2 player mode with the CPU the game is much more difficult, given the presence of the second boss in the Tournament mini-game.

Deluxe Version however is not affected by this problem, 1 or 2 players mode are evenly balanced. Wink

DarkThief Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:54 pm

Playing with Sor Remake v5.1, EX Version is probably the hardest mod to finish at Mania.

Boss Rushes of Rage, Cazalbe's Adventure and many of the obscure Russian mods would like a word Razz

(Prison in the World of Video Games doesn't count, as that's the only mod that's genuinely impossible without SORMaker)

Ducobson Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:15 pm

Okay, probably I did not play some mod Razz

However, I feel it is important to be able to finish a mod level Mania without using cheats.
The cheats are a big help, sometimes enjoy using them, but a veteran player should always play without using them. Wink

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