Fake?!)

Puzirkov Tue Sep 03, 2024 2:05 pm

I suggest you take part in the experiment. You saw a fake location that you liked and you implement it. Here I am posting my work. Anyone who wants can correct it or suggest improvements.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FB3h1Mv-EvwMy0QBtpwhnTAsBOs6YMDX/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_7LktSVA9h-nR7JjGYcWoMdXju5h1pkW/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XG5-f3oj3M8WWdVH15ZHSbK4O26nPmPe/view?usp=sharing

Karo-sempai Tue Sep 03, 2024 10:26 pm

I'm not an artist (in any way), don't know the artists' language/slang. And, independently of the precedent statement, I don't know (don't see) what "fake" is in the picture above. The sunset sea at the beach. Sea is sea. Sunset is sunset. Sand is sand. Which exact "fakeness" is inside all that?

However I am almost blind, in the pure literal sense used by doctors, so I'm even less expert than "no expert at all". So maybe it's just me.

Iceferno Wed Sep 04, 2024 12:41 am

Sunset beaches are a rare concept in SORR that should be explored more. Thumbs up

I still can't believe we have 4 official games, and no mall stage.

Karo-sempai Wed Sep 04, 2024 1:24 am

Iceferno wrote:Sunset beaches are a rare concept in SORR that should be explored more.

IAW (I agree with).

Iceferno wrote:I still can't believe we have 4 official games, and no mall stage.

Perhaps the authors of the official games simply did not want to epigonize from Final Fight.

Iceferno Wed Sep 04, 2024 1:25 am

Karo-sempai wrote:
Iceferno wrote:I still can't believe we have 4 official games, and no mall stage.
Perhaps the authors of the official games simply did not want to epigonize from Final Fight.

I don't think even Final Fight has any. There are some great ones in other Capcom and Konami arcade beat em ups though.

Puzirkov Wed Sep 04, 2024 8:53 am

Puzirkov wrote:
I suggest you take part in the experiment. You saw a fake location that you liked and you implement it. Here I am posting my work. Anyone who wants can correct it or suggest improvements.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FB3h1Mv-EvwMy0QBtpwhnTAsBOs6YMDX/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_7LktSVA9h-nR7JjGYcWoMdXju5h1pkW/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XG5-f3oj3M8WWdVH15ZHSbK4O26nPmPe/view?usp=sharing

To be more precise, interesting scenarios are often drawn on the Internet and it immediately seems that a new mod has been released. But it turns out that it is just a picture made in Photoshop. By posting this beach, I wanted to offer all the group members to give the forum one of their stages that you have been working on.
You can add dialogues and start making a whole mod. You can also add a vote in the group where participants vote to leave this work or remake it. Perhaps not to post at all. The thing is that I would like to inspire people to create something because it is not very interesting to play in my mods.
So I'm looking forward to someone posting their work. I think the mod should be very similar to streets of rage 5.1. The mod could start from this beach right after the battle over shiva in stage 1 of streets of rage 3.
So, the game starts right after defeating Shiva and our heroes jumped over the fence and found themselves on the beach, where hordes of thugs and other bastards were waiting for them. Well, then it's night and where will our team end up?

Karo-sempai Wed Sep 04, 2024 10:22 am

Sorry, пане, but so far, I don't see that as a really interesting "start of a story". I think the events that take place in the official 3rd episode after the battle with Shiva are the best that can be invented in this regard.

I would advise you to focus your efforts on extrapolating events, which took place, mostly, BETWEEN the episodes of the official quadrilogy, and not "during one of them" ("Adam's Story" is a brilliant exception).

In addition, I do not recommend making something "very similar"(c) to existing official SOR games, mods and remakes. It is not reasonable to look for success where someone has already found it once; success no longer lies there, it has been taken away. I would advise you not to be lazy and come up with something "unprecedented", with something "original enough" and "unusual/unfamiliar enough", rather than "almost copying" what is already made by someone. Copycats are more or less futile.

Note: I never condemn any FULL (or close to be full) remake of any SOR or non-SOR game by means of Sormaker. Such remakes I consider as a "sacred cause", and I badly love them.

Puzirkov Wed Sep 04, 2024 12:41 pm

Karo-sempai wrote:Sorry, пане, but so far, I don't see that as a really interesting "start of a story". I think the events that take place in the official 3rd episode after the battle with Shiva are the best that can be invented in this regard.

I would advise you to focus your efforts on extrapolating events, which took place, mostly, BETWEEN the episodes of the official quadrilogy, and not "during one of them" ("Adam's Story" is a brilliant exception).

In addition, I do not recommend making something "very similar"(c) to existing official games, mods and remakes. It is not reasonable to look for success where someone has already found it once; success no longer lies there, it has been taken away. I would advise you not to be lazy and come up with something "unprecedented", with something "original enough" and "unusual/unfamiliar enough", rather than "almost copying" what is already made by someone. Copycats are more or less futile.

I haven't been chasing success for a long time))). Rather, I'm just looking for pleasure from passing new mods. I really liked the work where Don Vecta and Caj Natty recreated 3 parts of the game and made changes and improvements. The thing is that the most interesting thing for me is to visit places in the game where you couldn't get there before. For example, Natalie did a great job in the first part of the game at stage 2 to go into the house and see what was behind the walls of this location. Then you can make it so that you went out along the road and go further. But this is my personal opinion. I'm looking for those who are interested in this. Wink

Iceferno Wed Sep 04, 2024 12:46 pm

Karo-sempai wrote:I do not recommend making something "very similar"(c) to existing official games, mods and remakes. It is not reasonable to look for success where someone has already found it once; success no longer lies there, it has been taken away. I would advise you not to be lazy and come up with something "unprecedented", with something "original enough" and "unusual/unfamiliar enough", rather than "almost copying" what is already made by someone. Copycats are more or less futile.

SORR should only ever be for what people want to make. If you start imposing a bunch of rules, you take away the entire purpose of the game: to celebrate and adapt.

Karo-sempai Wed Sep 04, 2024 3:31 pm

Iceferno wrote:SORR should only ever be for what people want to make. If you start imposing a bunch of rules, you take away the entire purpose of the game: to celebrate and adapt.

I was "imposing" nothing, I was just giving some advice. It's a significant difference.

Mr. Puzirkov did not specify at first that he dreamed of mods that would propose "neighboring locations that are not available in the official game" to be explorable (say, what exactly is inside the house, or what exactly is placed near the beach, etc.). In principle, I never was against SUCH things. Exploration is a nice procedure.

But Mr. Puzirkov expressed himself a bit too vaguely; I mistakenly thought that he wanted "slightly different variations of existing games and mods" to be created for some unclear reason; and I did not see any interest in EXACTLY SUCH works and could not recommend such a direction. Nothing but that.
* But even then I did not try to "impose" anything. What a bizarre idea! For example, if I do NOT recommend someone to saw the branch on which someone is sitting (if I can't condone such sawing), I still do not IMPOSE on that man the exact rule "Do not saw this branch". Imposing is abuse, and abuse isn't my way.
But I still have the right, from the height of my years, to say the following (in an abuse-free manner): "Men, I would not advise this or that. If I were you, I wouldn't do this or that. And still, - I mean, - you are free to do what you want (but the consequences then will be at your own expense)."
Just such (!) innocent way. No any "imposed rules".

* * *

And... by the way... the third official game, in my opinion, is very special (even unique) in terms of the plot; there is a nuclear (laxine) threat hanging over everyone, and the heroes seem to have no time to wander around and to explore.
Is it conceivable that, for example, Frodo Baggins, in the midst of his mission, would suddenly go to some random neighboring locations to "explore Middle-earth"?!?!! No, it is not conceivable. It would be an OOC ("out of character"). And I don't like OOC. Personally, I. Having the obvious right not to like it.

* * *

To create a detailed city where you can go to a lot of different places (where you can't in official games) - I am dreaming of such thing, me too (proof is here: https://sorr.forumotion.net/t1082-what-if-i-try-and-make-a-large-scale-sandbox-like-mod-with-plenty-of-locations ).
But at the same time, I did not want the heroes to be depicted as "retreating from their main road for the sake of exploration right in the midst of the tragic events of BKIII" (?!). Instead, I wanted the exploring process to be placed in some other (more appropriate) segment of the timeline... somewhere between the first and second game, or between the second and the third, or between the third and fourth... to make it more logical and plausible.
But the city is still the same, and the "non-obvious locations available for exploring" (which are of interest to both Puzirkov and me) are still the same. So does it matter for YOU "when exactly"? But for me, it does matter.

Karo-sempai Wed Sep 04, 2024 3:34 pm

Puzirkov wrote:I haven't been chasing success for a long time

Of course you haven't been CHASING (!) success.
But still, everyone wants success, but not everyone admits it))) Everyone does somewhat like success, even not being a "chaser" after it. I have not yet seen anyone who would like to obtain failure instead of success)))

Karo-sempai Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:53 pm

Puzirkov wrote:For example, Natalie did a great job in the first part of the game at stage 2 to go into the house and see what was behind the walls of this location. Then you can make it so that you went out along the road and go further.

Pardon my ignorance (or my faulty memory), but what is the exact name of the mod? I'd like to play and complete it (as an option: to do it again).

I'm looking for those who are interested in this.

Well, you found me Wink

Karo-sempai Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:54 am

Iceferno wrote:SORR should only ever be for what people want to make. If you start imposing a bunch of rules, you take away the entire purpose of the game: to celebrate and adapt.

Formally, when it's about some creativity, there are three ways:
1. Try to impose rules. (That's not my method.)
2. Without imposing anything, still approve something, and deny approval to something else. And in the same time, let anyone do what they want.
3. Accept and approve absolutely everything, never considering any phenomenon unacceptable from your point of view. (?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Rolling Eyes

) Not only do I not do that, but I've, having lived for more than half a century, never met anyone who would do that.

Puzirkov Thu Sep 05, 2024 6:56 am

Karo-sempai wrote:
Iceferno wrote:SORR should only ever be for what people want to make. If you start imposing a bunch of rules, you take away the entire purpose of the game: to celebrate and adapt.
Formally, when it's about some creativity, there are three ways:
1. Try to impose rules. (That's not my method.)
2. Without imposing anything, still approve something, and deny approval to something else. And in the same time, let anyone do what they want.
3. Accept and approve absolutely everything, never considering any phenomenon unacceptable from your point of view. (?!?!?!?!?!?!?! ) Not only do I not do that, but I've, having lived for more than half a century, never met anyone who would do that.

Today I see that mods are not being developed as actively as before. Perhaps this is due to the fact that most have lost interest. But an idea came to my mind. I know for sure that many people have a lot of developments and many have started making mods. That's why I suggested posting my stages here, and then you can make a mod. Yes, no one has done this, but what do we lose if we try?
P.S. https://sorr.forumotion.net/t377-streets-of-rage-1-collection-for-v5-vecta-edition

Karo-sempai Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:35 am

Sadly I am still a pretty bad wannabe-modder. I am still a "white belt" in modding. I am almost no modder at all. You (Puzirkov), technically, are way better in this craft than me (I do know that I'm saying, because I used to play the mods of yours, including "The End"). I am still learning to. And I have many things to solve IRL, so I will have... not quite plenty of free time.
I possibly would be able to just make a story (scenario, dialogue etc.) after your materials, - for example, after your stages, - rather to make a complete mod by myself. In the latter case, the result will look poor.

I am still struggling even with mere enemy-placement! I need good tutorials! And I need advices/guidelines from some "sensei" modder.

Karo-sempai Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:18 am

...Still, kindly post your stages here, Mr. Puzirkov. What do we lose if we try, really? I already downloaded "The Sunset Sea". What do you have besides it? I anyways need a collection of stages. I don't know what exactly stories to make, if I have no stages (also, kindly read my signature under this post).

Puzirkov Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:39 am

Karo-sempai wrote:...Still, kindly post your stages here, Mr. Puzirkov. What we lose if we try, really? I already downloaded "The Sunset Sea". What do you have besides it? I anyways need a collection of stages. I don't know what exactly stories to make, if I have no stages (also, kindly read my signature under this post).

It'll be damn cool if you get the chance to do the dialogue. The fact is that I am also not good at the game in many ways. I also have big problems with placement. Therefore, one author and my friend Serrr helped me a lot. That's why I propose to join forces. For example, thanks to the forum, I learned how to work with the winkawaks program. Thanks to her, you can get a lot of locations, and then gradually everything will work out.

Karo-sempai Thu Sep 05, 2024 10:49 am

Is the quick "story" I made for "The End" okay? I used to be (and this means I am still) a pro writer.

Puzirkov Fri Sep 06, 2024 1:14 pm

Karo-sempai wrote:Is the quick "story" I made for "The End" okay? I used to be (and this means I am still) a pro writer.

I couldn't write like that. I definitely liked the idea. I plan to add these dialogues in the near future and will also include your name in the mod.

Karo-sempai Fri Sep 13, 2024 12:22 pm

Again and again, my friends:
for a long time, I've been dreaming about a mod, in which Wood Oak City would be presented with really many different options for the path, and accordingly, with really many different endings.

In such an extended mod, the city should be presented in detail, and with the maximum possible (for this format) freedom of exploration, with access to shops, etc.

Well, if I live to see the moment when I begin to try to prepare such a mod (or just to participate in its creation), then it will certainly contain an opportunity to jump over the fence (near which, at sunset, in part III, the heroes fought Shiva!) and get to the Sunset Beach, with the image of which this thread began (grace to Puzirkov).

But! One thing is for sure: the action of this mod DEFINITELY WON'T unfold during the events of BKIII! For reasons that I have explained (somewhat confusingly???) above. The heroes hardly will have time to explore the city (to choose different random paths) when the laxine threat looms over them!
But when that threat is already over (which means that the good canonical finale of BKIII is already the past, the history), then you can freely walk around the city in a variety of paths, including this one.

The point is I am the one who always takes into account the considerations of plot, of plausibility, of continuity...

* * *

I really liked Puzirkov's suggestion to introduce a location (the Sunset Beach) that you get to if you jump over that "historical" fence.

But I REALLY DIDN'T like the idea of setting this in the days of the struggle against the laxine threat. No, no, and no! Definitely later!
(And earlier would be plainly impossible: before BKI, the characters were not acquainted with Shiva yet.)

Shiva, after all, is more than able to start a "rematch" again near the same fence. Shiva is obsessed with "the rematch" and with the tries to overcome Axel (to prove to Axel that Shiva is a better, more skilled warrior than Axel) - this is the canon in its purest form...

Karo-sempai Fri Sep 13, 2024 1:03 pm

Puzirkov wrote:...thanks to the forum, I learned how to work with the winkawaks program. Thanks to her, you can get a lot of locations, and then gradually everything will work out.

And how exactly one should work with winKAWAKS? How exactly to extract arcade games' locations by means of that program? And how exactly to put them into the Sormaker mods? I need a good tutorial (a text tutorial, not a video one). I am a complete ignoramus in technical matters.

Puzirkov Tue Sep 24, 2024 9:44 am

Karo-sempai wrote:
Puzirkov wrote:...thanks to the forum, I learned how to work with the winkawaks program. Thanks to her, you can get a lot of locations, and then gradually everything will work out.

And how exactly one should work with winKAWAKS? How exactly to extract arcade games' locations by means of that program? And how exactly to put them into the Sormaker mods? I need a good tutorial (a text tutorial, not a video one). I am a complete ignoramus in technical matters.

https://sorr.forumotion.net/t51-tutorial-ripping-layers-from-kawaks-cps1-2-neo-geo?highlight=kawaks
Good luck Very Happy

Karo-sempai Tue Sep 24, 2024 10:04 am

Puzirkov wrote:Good luck

Tremendous thanks, brother! And where to download the games? Maybe here? https://www.winkawaks.org/roms/

But... in order to rip a location from the game, is it necessary for the game to run?
And then in that kawaks, which is by the link, not a single game starts, for some reason (((

Puzirkov Tue Sep 24, 2024 1:21 pm

Karo-sempai wrote:
Puzirkov wrote:Good luck
Tremendous thanks, brother! And where to download the games? Maybe here? https://www.winkawaks.org/roms/

But... in order to rip a location from the game, is it necessary for the game to run?
And then in that kawaks, which is by the link, not a single game starts, for some reason (((

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